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December 27, 2024, 4:00 PM
Enter Techmeme snapshot date and time:
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| OpenAI: |
OpenAI says its board of directors is evaluating its corporate structure, including a plan to turn its for-profit arm into a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation — A stronger non-profit supported by the for-profit's success. — OpenAI's Board of Directors is evaluating our corporate structure …
Bluesky: @kyunghyuncho and @caseynewton
X: @teknium1, @miles_brundage, @openai, @miles_brundage, @danielnewmanuv, @nathanbenaich, @kchonyc, @edkrassen, @sirajraval, @chetanp, @benjamindekr, @miles_brundage, @emostaque, and @pitdesi
Forums: Hacker News, r/singularity, and Slashdot
More:
Igor Bonifacic / Engadget: OpenAI's for-profit plan includes a public benefit corporation
William Hicks / San Francisco Business Times: OpenAI reveals plan to convert to public benefit corporation
Kyle Wiggers / TechCrunch: OpenAI lays out its for-profit transition plans
Hassam Nasir / Tom's Hardware: OpenAI switching to a for-profit company to raise more cash as it continues to lose money
PYMNTS.com: OpenAI Board Considering Transforming For-Profit Into Delaware Public Benefit Corporation
Ashley Belanger / Ars Technica: OpenAI defends for-profit shift as critical to sustain humanitarian mission
Stephanie Palazzolo / The Information: OpenAI Announces Plan to Become Delaware Public Benefit Corporation
Kali Hays / Fortune: OpenAI confirms plans to become a for-profit company as it looks to raise even more investor money
Todd Feathers / Gizmodo: To Further Its Mission of Benefitting Everyone, OpenAI Will Become Fully for-Profit
Alex Wilhelm / Cautious Optimism: The OpenAI corporate revamp seems pretty reasonable
William Gavin / Quartz: OpenAI may become a for-profit because it needs ‘more capital than imagined’
Taylor Herzlich / New York Post: OpenAI says it needs 'more capital than we'd imagined' as it details for-profit plan
Tracy Brown Hamilton / Fast Company: OpenAI pivots to for-profit model to secure massive AI funding
Pradeep Viswanathan / Neowin: OpenAI will be transforming its for-profit into a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation
Matthias Bastian / The Decoder: OpenAI confirms plans to transform its for-profit arm into a public benefit corporation
Reinhardt Krause / Investor's Business Daily: OpenAI Lays Out For-Profit Business Strategy Amid Microsoft Talks, Musk Feud
Dave Parrack / MakeUseOf: OpenAI Is Becoming a For-Profit Company to Ensure That AI “Benefits All of Humanity”
Ramish Zafar / Wccftech: OpenAI Announces For-Profit Business Model - Will Create A Public Benefit Corporation
Emily Dattilo / Barron's Online: OpenAI Wants to Create a ‘Public Benefit Corporation.’ Here's What That Means.
Arsheeya Bajwa / Reuters: OpenAI lays out plan to shift to new for-profit structure
Alex O'Donnell / Cointelegraph: OpenAI mulls restructuring
Bluesky:
@kyunghyuncho: however nicely it's put, it simply means that OpenAI is now a fully for-profit entity (yeah yeah PBC blah blah) and that the non-profit arm is just a separate entity with a small amount of shares of the for-profit entity however without any control beyond these shares. — openai.com/index/why-ou...
X:
@teknium1: “Our plan would create one of the best-resourced non-profits in history” Maybe i don't understand but isn't it as it is an even better resourced non profit right now then it will be? lol
Miles Brundage / @miles_brundage: First, just noting that I agree that AI is capital intensive in a way that was less clear at the time of OpenAI's founding, and that a pure non-profit didn't work given that. And given the current confusing bespoke structure, some simplification is very reasonable to consider.
@openai: OpenAI's Board of Directors is evaluating our corporate structure with the goal of making a stronger non-profit supported by the for-profit's success. Our plan would create one of the best-resourced non-profits in history. https://openai.com/...
Miles Brundage / @miles_brundage: Glad to see OpenAI sharing their latest thinking re: corporate structure, and a lot of the explanation makes sense. However, there are some red flags here that need to be urgently addressed + better explained publicly before the transition goes through.🧵
Daniel Newman / @danielnewmanuv: The developing situation at OpenAI is really interesting. Today it announced its official intent to convert to a PBC (Public Benefactor Corporation) with a dual mandate but a traditional stock/governance structure so it could more easily raise capital for its rapidly rising
Nathan Benaich / @nathanbenaich: My op-ed in the @FT on October 6, 2024: “But there is no inherent conflict between running a straightforward for-profit company and building safe, robust technology. Reckless behaviour that regulates an industry out of existence endangers profits. Companies like Google [image]
Kyunghyun Cho / @kchonyc: however nicely it's put, it simply means that OpenAI is now a fully for-profit entity (yeah yeah PBC blah blah) and that the non-profit arm is just a separate entity with a small number of shares of the for-profit entity however without any control beyond these shares.
Ed Krassenstein / @edkrassen: @OpenAI Will we see anything become open source?
Siraj Raval / @sirajraval: I appreciate how thoughtful OpenAI still is about decentralizing AI, this is a great move. “Our plan is to transform our existing for-profit into a Delaware Public Benefit Corporation”
Chetan Puttagunta / @chetanp: It really does seem like it comes down to Microsoft agreeing to changing their agreement. This is stood out to me: “It will enable us to raise the necessary capital with conventional terms like others in this space.”
Benjamin De Kraker / @benjamindekr: OpenAI becoming CLOSED AI — transitioning to a for-profit structure. Inevitable but kind of sad.
Miles Brundage / @miles_brundage: Beyond those points, though, I have serious disagreements/concerns. First, there is surprisingly little discussion of actual governance details, despite this arguably being the key issue. What will the vote/share split be between different constituencies + considerations?
| Cade Metz / New York Times: |
OpenAI says its non-profit arm would receive shares in the new public benefit corporation at a valuation determined by independent financial advisors — OpenAI said it will be restructured as a public benefit corporation, and the nonprofit that controls the organization would receive shares in the new company.Bluesky:
Justin Hendrix / @justinhendrix: “In a company blog post published on Friday, OpenAI said it planned to restructure as a public benefit corporation, or P.B.C., which is a for-profit corporation designed to create public and social good. OpenAI rivals like Anthropic and Elon Musk's xAI use a similar structure.”
| Hayden Field / CNBC: |
More:
Maria Deutscher / SiliconANGLE: Confirming reports, OpenAI details plans to turn into a for-profit company
Anusuya Lahiri / Benzinga: Sam Altman's OpenAI Plans Major Restructuring to Non-Profit Structure Amid Rising Costs
Shirin Ghaffary / Fortune: OpenAI considers morphing into a for-profit business that risks triggering Elon Musk even more than he already is
Patrick Hosking / The Times: OpenAI restructuring will free it from non-profit parent
Bluesky:
X:
Miles Brundage / @miles_brundage: Third, while there is a ton of potential for a well-capitalized non-profit to drive “charitable initiatives in sectors such as health care, education, and science,” that is a very narrow scope relative to the original OpenAI mission. What about advancing safety and good policy?
LinkedIn:
| Bloomberg: |
Montenegro says Terraform Labs co-founder Do Kwon will be extradited to the US, potentially ending a standoff over competing demands by the US and South Korea — “Most criteria envisaged by the law are in favor of the extradition demands from the institutions of the United States of America …
X: @coryklippsten and @zguz
More:
Jacqueline Howard / BBC: S Korean crypto-boss Do Kwon to be extradited to US
Emma Roth / The Verge: Do Kwon will be extradited to the US to face charges over Terra's $40 billion crypto crash
Pedro Solimano / DL News: Terra's Do Kwon to be sent to US to face trial on fraud charges, minister says
Murtuza Merchant / Benzinga: Terra Luna Co-Founder Do Kwon To Be Extradited To The US: Report
Mehron Rokhy / The Daily Hodl: Do Kwon Set To Be Extradited to the US After Losing Appeal in Montenegrin Constitutional Court: Report
Reza Ali / Blockchain News: Montenegro Approves Do Kwon's Extradition to U.S. Over Terra-Luna Collapse
Jalpa Bhavsar / The Crypto Times: Montenegro Confirms Do Kwon's Extradition to the US
Naga Avan-Nomayo / crypto.news: Montenegrin Minister orders Do Kwon's US extradtion
Joshua Ramos / Watcher Guru: Terra Luna Founder Do Kwon to be Extradited to the US
CityNews Halifax: Montenegro approves the extradition of cryptocurrency mogul Do Kwon to the United States
Mohammad Shahid / BeInCrypto: Breaking Terraform Labs Founder Do Kwon Will be Extradited to the United States
Choi Kyong-ae / Yonhap News Agency: Montenegrin gov't to extradite crypto fugitive Kwon to U.S. for trial: report
Nidhi Kolhapur / Coinpedia Fintech News: Montenegro Signs Extradition Order For Do Kwon To The United States
Godfrey Benjamin / CoinGape: Just In: LUNA's Founder Do Kwon To Be Extradited To The US
Borislav Visnjic / Balkan Insight: Montenegro to Extradite South Korean Crypto Mogul to US
Chimamanda U. Martha / Coinspeaker: Montenegro Court Finally Approves Do Kwon Extradition to United States
| Reuters: |
Experts say hackers compromised several companies' Chrome browser extensions, including Cyberhaven's, in a series of intrusions dating back to mid-December — Hackers have compromised several different companies' Chrome browser extensions in a series of intrusions dating back to mid-December …
Bluesky: @metacurity.com, @zackwhittaker, and @mattjay.com
X: @jaimeblascob, @swiftonsecurity, @swiftonsecurity, @swiftonsecurity, @swiftonsecurity, @swiftonsecurity, @jaimeblascob, @jaimeblascob, and @jaimeblascob. LinkedIn: Or Eshed
More:
Matt Johansen / Vulnerable U: Breaking: Cyberhaven Chrome Extension Compromised in Holiday Attack Campaign
Daryna Antoniuk / The Record: Cyber startup employee hacked to distribute malicious Chrome extension
Bluesky:
Cynthia Brumfield / @metacurity.com: Clearly, the cybersecurity world did not get the memo that the days between Christmas and New Year's is a no-news zone. [embedded post]
Zack Whittaker / @zackwhittaker: New, w/ @lorenzofb.bsky.social: Data-loss prevention startup Cyberhaven was hacked to publish a malicious update to its Chrome extension, affecting potentially thousands of users. A security researcher says other big Chrome extensions were hacked in the same campaign. — techcrunch.com/2024/12/27/c...
Matt Johansen / @mattjay.com: An attacker successfully phished a Cyberhaven employee. — They gained access to their Chrome Web Store admin credentials and published a malicious version of the Cyberhaven extension. — Read my full writeup here: — www.vulnu.com/p/breaking-c... Thanks @jaimeblascob.bsky.social and @johntuckner.me
X:
Jaime Blasco / @jaimeblascob: Regarding the Cyberhaven chrome extension compromise I have reasons to believe there are other extensions affected. Pivoting by the ip address there are more domains created within the same time range resolving to the same ip address as cyberhavenext[.]pro (cont)
@swiftonsecurity: Credentials: I have for years decried Google's governance of their extension ecosystem. I have caused two different news cycles about it. Extension compromise is an insane issue because it lets you bypass MFA. This has to be addressed.
@swiftonsecurity: The thing about Chrome extensions manifest V3 is it actually is desperately needed, it's unfortunate some forces possibly used it to limit adblocking on the side. However it will still mostly work I am not concerned.
@swiftonsecurity: Note when I say I'm not concerned I mean regarding efficacy of preventing most traditional malvertising against corporate users. About ability to stop like YouTube ads I have no comment.
@swiftonsecurity: As someone who actually came up in prominence around Firefox extensions, browser extensions are truly insane basically rootkits for the online age. It is shocking what they can do to your life if any of them decide to not be nice one day.
@swiftonsecurity: If you are entirely negatively polarized against Chrome Manifest V3 you don't actually understand the stakes here. This is a backdoor to every company everywhere right now.
Jaime Blasco / @jaimeblascob: VPNCity chrome extension also affected https://chromewebstore.google.com/ ... more than 50k users.
| Stephanie Palazzolo / The Information: |
An undisclosed 2023 agreement between Microsoft and OpenAI defines achieving AGI as the point when OpenAI develops AI systems that generate $100B+ in profits — Finally, a verifiable, numbers-based description of artificial general intelligence has arrived!
Bluesky: @oompa.org, @righteoushazard, @golikehellmachine.com, @evacide, @marypcbuk, @eliotkjones, @penllawen.favrd.social, @bladesjester, @dani.cool, @paulmainwood, @chaosgreml.in, @thisiselena, @meredithmeredith, @edzitron.com, @hypervisible, @goldstein, @andrewhinton, @basilevs83, @intrinsicmode.com, @xxiainxx, @stevenbock.me, @markriedl, @mrmandolino.itch.io, @caezar.io, @mrhands31, @mattsiegel, @rtm223.me, @kbsutt, @idthemike.xyz, @firepile, @magex, @joshuaerlich, @alondra, @frankenmizer, and @daniloc.xyz. Mastodon: @maxpool@mathstodon.xyz
More:
Thomas Maxwell / Gizmodo: Leaked Documents Show OpenAI Has a Very Clear Definition of ‘AGI’
Angela Harmantas / Proactive: OpenAI to create public benefit corporation amid funding push
Sakshi Sadashiv K / MEDIANAMA: Report: How Are OpenAI and Microsoft Defining AGI with a Profit Benchmark?
Kevin Okemwa / Windows Central: I asked ChatGPT and Copilot about AGI predictions for 2025 — OpenAI unanimously tops the chart partly due to its Microsoft tie-up and 2-year lead building AI ‘uncontested’
Markus Kasanmascheff / WinBuzzer: Microsoft and OpenAI Tie AGI to a $100 Billion Profit Goal
Business Insider: OpenAI reveals new details about its plan to convert to a for-profit structure: ‘We have to become an enduring company’
Supreeth Koundinya / Analytics India Magazine: OpenAI Must Earn $100 Bn to Prove AGI's Worth to Microsoft
Kwan Wei Kevin Tan / Business Insider: OpenAI and Microsoft have put a price tag on what it means to achieve AGI: report
Rani Molla / Sherwood News: Microsoft and OpenAI have agreed on a definition of artificial general intelligence
Richard Lawler / The Verge: OpenAI, Microsoft, and the $100 billion AGI question
Bluesky:
@oompa.org: Nothing wrong with wanting to make money, but there is something wrong in making the rest of the world think your motives are really altruistic. [embedded post]
@righteoushazard: Arthur C Clark and Stanley Kubrick really had us thinking the AGI problem was gonna be it locking us outside the airlock or something — bsky.app/profile/tech... [embedded post]
@golikehellmachine.com: you almost kind of have to hand it to MSFT here, they figured out how to avoid buying the cow while getting the milk for free
@evacide: “The two companies reportedly signed an agreement last year stating OpenAI has only achieved AGI when it develops AI systems that can generate at least $100 billion in profits.” — “AGI is when I have heaps of money,” is one hell of a position. — techcrunch.com/2024/12/26/m...
Mary Branscombe / @marypcbuk: if it's better than most people at making money may *not* be the definition we want for AGI but I wonder if this was a riposte to the 'we'll know it when we see it and we get to decide' proposal from OpenAI [embedded post]
Richard Gaywood / @penllawen.favrd.social: that's not how scientific breakthroughs work, and it's not even close [embedded post]
James Hollingshead / @bladesjester: What the actual eff? “AGI” is an LLM that's profitable? — And the sad thing is that people who don't know better (which is most people. Honestly even a lot of people in tech) and will claim that they're right. [embedded post]
@paulmainwood: Wonder what other philosophical problems could be resolved by setting a market cap number. [embedded post]
Bryan Guffey / @chaosgreml.in: I mean, at least we now know we don't have to take their definition even the least bit seriously. — “OpenAI declares AGI” — “Yeah, yeah, you just hit a revenue target. This thing still chokes on my prompts at least once a day.” [embedded post]
Elena Perez / @thisiselena: new kind of black hole dropped [embedded post]
Meredith Whittaker / @meredithmeredith: Complete knowledge of the full majesty of universal creation in all its divine facets is when I own an island. [embedded post]
Ed Zitron / @edzitron.com: How the hell does something's profitability connect to whether it's AGI? Also how about an AI system that generates profits of any kind lol — www.theinformation.com/articles/ mic... [embedded post]
@hypervisible: Rubes out here trying to pin down a definition when the companies agree that true AGI is when they generate earth shattering profits.
Andrew Hinton / @andrewhinton: Seems kinda on the nose that billionaires would use “makes enough billions” as their metric for the point where “AI” becomes generally “intelligent” [embedded post]
Vasili Gulevich / @basilevs83: It is a much better definition than many. People constantly argue about intelligence and consciousness. Can't argue about cash.
Byron Galbraith / @intrinsicmode.com: Agreed-upon Gross Income [embedded post]
Steven Bock / @stevenbock.me: What was the first time? I haven't been keeping up with the AGI definitions - too busy building stuff.
Mark Riedl / @markriedl: Words don't mean anything anymore [embedded post]
Mando / @mrmandolino.itch.io: two things on this — one: the utter grotesquery of first redefining what “artificial intelligence” is and then arbitrarily say “actually the real artificial intelligence is when product makes this much money” — two: they're never gonna get there, and while they try, Microsoft gets everything they make [embedded post]
@caezar.io: That's the second time Sam Altman admitted that OpenAI cannot see any path to AGI. With one more we should then start to see a scale adjustment as they try to produce marginal revenue per transaction. — Short of revolution, it sure sounds like the pipe dream is in for an adjustification.
Mr. Hands / @mrhands31: Sentience is when a corporation paperclip maximizes its way to Love [embedded post]
Richard Meredith / @rtm223.me: Extremely funny that they — A) have so little idea what they are making that they have to define AGI by profitability — B) think OpenAI will generate $100B in profit [embedded post]
@kbsutt: What a useless definition! — Words mean things! — Also, this doesn't really explain why Altman has more recently sought to redefine AGI to the point of meaninglessness. If their contract defines it in terms of revenue, then he can't just get out of it by waving his hands and gesturing “Voila, AGI!” [embedded post]
@idthemike.xyz: Jokes aside, this is basically the 2 most advanced AI players in the market admitting that AGI ain't ever happening [embedded post]
Robin Z / @firepile: A Christmas Carol but it's the ghosts of Alan Turing, Ada Lovelace, and Joseph Weizenbaum haunting the absolute fuck out of Sam Altman. Just following him around and heckling him 24/7. [embedded post]
Joshua Erlich / @joshuaerlich: defining general intelligence by its profitability is too on the nose to joke about. i've got nothing left. [embedded post]
Alondra Nelson / @alondra: AGI = Automated Gross Income [embedded post]
Mastodon:
@maxpool@mathstodon.xyz: Microsoft and OpenAI have contractual definition of AGI. — https://techcrunch.com/... The reason the need for definition is that Microsoft loses access to OpenAI's technology when the startup reaches AGI. — “The two companies reportedly signed an agreement last year stating OpenAI has only achieved AGI when it develops AI systems that can generate at least $100 billion in profits.” …
X:
Bill Gurley / @bgurley: I hope this contract is published one day. Will make a great case study. A golf bettor friend of mine says “most bets are won before the first tee.”
@davidad: In a slow takeoff timeline, many things that were often synonymous from a speculative distance come apart. For example, what many people really meant by AGI was “transformative AI,” e.g. an AI agent that makes more total profit than Airbus, Citigroup, and General Motors combined.
Daniel Eth / @daniel_271828: Thesis: AGI stands for “artificial general intelligence” Antithesis: AGI stands for “adjusted gross income” Synthesis:
Meredith Whittaker / @mer__edith: Complete knowledge of the full majesty of universal creation in all its divine facets is when I own an island.
Peter Wildeford / @peterwildeford: Interesting - According to The Information, OpenAI and Microsoft have formally defined AGI as reaching $100 billion in profits. It's implied that OpenAI doesn't think they'll reach this milestone until 2030 or later.
@kimmonismus: As @theinformation writes, OpenAI has now developed a new definition for AGI. While the definition otherwise focuses primarily on technical details, OpenAI now wants to make it revenue-based. In short: AGI = 100b in revenue. Ultimately, it also fits with Level 5 AGI that an AI [image]
AshutoshShrivastava / @ai_for_success: Don't mess with Satya: “AGI will be achieved only when OpenAI develops systems capable of generating maximum total profits, and that number is close to $100 billion.” While everyone, including OpenAI employees, was feeling the AGI vibes after the o3 announcement, Microsoft made [image]
Tibor Blaho / @btibor91: The Information reports that Microsoft and OpenAI are negotiating their partnership terms as OpenAI CEO Sam Altman wants to convert the company into a for-profit corporation, with last year's agreement between the companies defining AGI as systems with ability to generate about [image]
@lessin: Good reporting and pretty hilarious from @theinformation / openai-microsoft deal defines AGI as generating “100b in profits” ... very hitchhikers guide to the galaxy-esque definition. [image]
Paris Marx / @parismarx: If AGI is simply an AI system that generates $100 billion in profit, it might be farther away than even the critics believed. https://gizmodo.com/...
Stephanie Palazzolo / @steph_palazzolo: Microsoft and OpenAI have put a price tag on AGI: $100B in profits. For more, check out this morning's AI Agenda: https://www.theinformation.com/ ...
Tolga Bilge / @tolgabilge_: New definition of AGI just dropped: it's after Microsoft and other investors manage to get $100B profit from OpenAI models
Chetan Puttagunta / @chetanp: New details here about the Microsoft/ Open AI partnership are fascinating. The various scenarios of how this partnership plays out will ripple through the ecosystem. Most interestingly: will Open AI models be available on AWS? Will Microsoft invest billions in other models?
Jacob Aron / @jjaron: Genuinely hilarious definition. Is Aramco AGI?
Amir Efrati / @amir: there is still some ambiguity in the contract but it's not as hazy as AGI is “systems that outperform people at most economically valuable work,” which is how OpenAI's website defines it.
Jacob Silverman / @silvermanjacob: So AGI is a pie in the sky KPI, not a discrete innovation or achievement
Aaron Holmes / @aaronpholmes: OpenAI can't just declare AGI whenever it wants and be free of Microsoft. The companies actually have a contractual definition of AGI: a system that can generate $100 billion in profits. Great reporting from @amir and @steph_palazzolo: https://www.theinformation.com/ ...
| Kyodo News+: |
TSMC says it has started mass production at its first factory in Japan, located in Kumamoto, producing 12nm to 28nm chips for use in cars and image sensors — Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. said Friday it has started mass production at its first factory in Japan … | Greg Otto / CyberScoop: |
The US says it has identified a ninth telecom company impacted by the Salt Typhoon hacks, and the number of individuals directly impacted is “less than 100” — In an update Friday, the White House says nine telecom companies were impacted by the Chinese espionage effort. — Learn more.
Bluesky: @metacurity.com and @gregotto
More:
Eric Tucker / Associated Press: A 9th telecoms firm has been hit by a massive Chinese espionage campaign, the White House says
A.J. Vicens / Reuters: US adds 9th telcom to list of companies hacked by Chinese-backed Salt Typhoon cyberespionage
Martin Matishak / The Record: US adds 9th telecom company to list of known Salt Typhoon targets
Francesca Chambers / USA Today: White House urges crackdown on US telecoms after massive Chinese hack
Bluesky:
X:
Alexei Bulazel / @0xalexei: Months after revelation of Salt Typhoon, one of the biggest hacks of US critical infrastructure this decade, we get: - @FCC regulations that will take months to years to implement - @USGSA review of federal contracts - @CommerceGov might block China Telecom but TBD Too little,
Forums:
| Financial Times: |
Meta expects AI-generated characters to “generate and share content” and “over time, exist on our platforms”, similarly to regular accounts — US tech group is rolling out a range of artificial intelligence tools to drive engagementBluesky:
Chad Loder / @chadloder: Humanity's planetary-scale communication platforms are all designed by the same psychologists who design the casino floor experience.
Molly Taft / @mollytaft.com: no further sign of tech executive brain rot re: AI than meta making this announcement like it's something exciting that people actually want. everyone i have talked to this holiday season hates how much slop is on social media. i have barely been on instagram recently bc of it
Jesse Singal Vapes Piss / @mumbly-joe: Pretty astonishing for a company that has long insisted on a “real names” policy to curb inauthentic accounts [embedded post]
Lukasz Olejnik / @lukaszolejnik: The future is social media filled with AI-powered bots? At least according to Meta's AI vision? Would you consider it useful to interact with artificial, inauthentic agents? This may be useful, for example threading bots, image generators. www.ft.com/content/9118... [image]
X:
Sam Altman / @sama: algorithmic feeds are the first at-scale misaligned AIs
Forums:
| Natasha Mascarenhas / The Information: |
Bookkeeping startup Bench, which raised $100M+ including from Shopify, closes down effective immediately; several employees say Bench also laid off staff — Bench, a Vancouver, Canada-based bookkeeping startup that had raised more than $100 million from well-known venture capital firms …
LinkedIn: David Morgantini, Greg O'Brien, CPA, Anne Hughes, and Max Ezerzer
Forums: Hacker News and r/vancouver
X:
Bryce Roberts / @bryce: When I say indie isn't about fundraising this is exactly what I mean. The right partners are a super power. The wrong partners are a death sentence to your ability to operate independently.
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 4/8 I had been battling with some of the board members over strategy. They wanted me to take the company in a new direction that I thought was a very bad idea. I wanted to continue with what was working and with what our partners had signed on to distribute. I was intransigent.
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 2/8 In November 2021 I went out for what I thought would be a regular lunch with one of my board members. We had just raised a Series C and turned down a highly lucrative acquisition offer. We had budding partnerships with companies like Shopify that were interested in the
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 3/8 The board member thanked me for bringing the company to this point, but that they would be hiring a new professional CEO to “take the company to the next level.”
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: 1/8 I'm very sad today to see that @Bench has shut down. I've avoided speaking publicly about Bench since just over 3 years ago when I was fired from the company I co-founded. I still don't have a lot of appetite to talk about it tbh, but think at least a short statement is
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 7/8 So I moved on. I started off fresh and built a new company (Teal). Earlier this year we successfully exited to Mercury. Things are going well and I'm excited for what we're up to.
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 8/8 I hope the story of Bench goes on to become a warning for VCs that think they can “upgrade” a company by replacing the founder. It never works.
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 6/8 I reasoned that if they were right and I'm just a wrong-headed founder who won't listen, then I should just fully get out of the way so they can see their vision through. And on a personal level, I just didn't think I could stand to watch them dismantle the company I had
Ian Crosby / @ianwcrosby: @Bench 5/8 Rather than continuing to fight with me, they opted just to just replace me, thinking that they could run the company better themselves. I was totally convinced that their approach would destroy the company. I opted to resign rather than fight. Because on the off-chance that
Jason Bosco / @jasonbosco: Bench Accounting. 500 employees, Series C, $109M in VC funding, 14 year-old company. NONE OF THAT MATTERS. Company just shut down, because VCs were propping them up and they weren't profitable. If raising X00 Million in VC funding is in your criteria when evaluating vendors,
Andrew Rea / @andrew__rea: .@Bench accounting is dead. Lots of startups, e-comm brands, and SMBs that will need help transitioning providers in the days and weeks ahead. Bench failing is not that shocking of a development for anyone who's been in the industry or a client of Bench's in the past though. [image]
Patrick McKenzie / @patio11: Oof. [image]
Jinesh Shah / @jineshshah36: @kepano @Bench We were once bench customers, and I completely see why they shutdown. Accounting, for all but the smallest companies, is complicated. Bench's bookkeeping process was designed to be cookie cutter. We could barely get direct access to any humans at the company. Now we pay a farely
Ayman Al-Abdullah / @aymanalabdul: Business is tough, but @Bench CEO has ZERO excuse for not giving employees, customers, and stakeholders advance warning and a proper transition plan Neglecting this isn't just a mistake—it's reputation-ending Leadership means accountability
Rohit Mittal / @rohitdotmittal: Does anyone know how to go about buying Bench's assets? I'm sure investors have counsel to sell the assets and get back whatever they can. It's an opportunity to raise a few million, buy all the assets, brand name, and the rest and run the thing profitably. If you think you
Natasha Mascarenhas / @nmasc_: Bench shut down is a big deal - especially this time of the year. Watching customers and employees melt down all over my LinkedIn/X feed https://www.theinformation.com/ ...
Brandon Hall / @bhallcpa: Another unfortunate example of outsiders thinking you can fully automate accounting. Bench, and those similar, have an unscalable model. Why? To have a large enough TAM and attract VC investments, they must charge rock bottom prices. Otherwise they become unaffordable to many [image]
Andrew Rea / @andrew__rea: It's about to be a bloodbath on Twitter/LinkedIn + email inboxes today as every accounting firm and accounting tech startup goes after the @Bench client base. [image]
Tommy Griffith / @tommygriffith: It looks like @Bench is shutting down, with 3 business days left in the year, right before tax season. Does anyone know what happened? [image]
Anand Sanwal / @asanwal: 13-year old accounting software @bench shuts down abruptly 3 days before year-end If you're a customer, ouch! Raised $104M w/the last round being $60M in 2021 A zero value here is wild Would figure the customer base, software would be worth something? But guess not [image]
LinkedIn:
David Morgantini: Almost 4 years ago I joined the Bench EPD team. Over the past 4 years, the team has grown and changed, making it virtually unrecognizable from the team I joined. …
Greg O'Brien / Greg O'Brien, CPA: Wow! Bench, an original cloud accounting provider who tried to scale low cost bookkeeping has abruptly closed its doors. …
| Todd Spangler / Variety: |
Eight free-speech groups, including the EFF, and three members of Congress file briefs with SCOTUS in support of TikTok's appeal against the divest-or-ban law — Groups alleging China's government has engaged in human-rights violations argue U.S. Constitution does not protect TikTok as “an unregistered foreign agent”
Bluesky: @martylederman, @martylederman, @martylederman, and @martylederman
More:
Raphael Satter / Reuters: Free-speech advocates tell Supreme Court US TikTok law reminiscent of dictatorships
Wendy Davis / MediaPost: Lawmakers Clash At SCOTUS Over TikTok Ban
Dennis Crouch / Patently-O: TikTok - A First Look at the Briefs
Knight First Amendment Institute: Knight Institute, Free Press, PEN America Urge Supreme Court to Strike Down TikTok Ban
Alden Abbott / Truth on the Market: Are TikTok's Days Numbered?
Bluesky:
Marty Lederman / @martylederman: In order to get any of the Justices to be at all sympathetic to its claim, TikTok will have to persuade them, at a minimum, that there'd be a significant harm to users if TikTok disappears. That might be difficult, b/c the Justices might simply assume ... [8]
Marty Lederman / @martylederman: I'm only discussing its constitutionality. — For those of you who haven't been following, the law doesn't *ban* TikTok—instead, it'll prohibit “app stores” and the like from offering it or servicing it after 01/19 *if* (and only if) there isn't a divestment of TikTok from PRC ownership by then. …
Marty Lederman / @martylederman: While waiting for other briefs, I'll interlineate a few thoughts and things to look for. FWIW, I think it's highly likely the SCOTUS will uphold the law. My posts here will reflect some of the reasons why I think so. I don't have any strong views on whether the law was wise. [5]
X:
Ryan Calo / @rcalo: Lots of people contributed but counsel @WillkieFarr and profs @AnupamChander @dispositive and Ash Bhagwat took the lead. (Correct me if I'm leaving folks out!) Thanks for the opportunity to work on this important intervention.
| Zachary Small / New York Times: |
Video game executives say making cinematic games is getting so expensive and time-consuming that investing in graphics is providing diminished financial returns — The gaming industry spent billions pursuing the idea that customers wanted realistic graphics. Did executives misread the market?
Bluesky: @katiedidnt, @baldsavant, @anolen, @thestrangerous, and @thegamechief. Mastodon: @zeh@mastodon.gamedev.place. Threads: @carnage4life. X: @megaapple18
Forums: r/Games, r/technology, and Slashdot
More:
Anusuya Lahiri / Benzinga: Gaming Conundrum - Balancing Graphics, Budgets, and Player Demand
Christopher Harper / Tom's Hardware: Gaming industry insiders say cutting-edge graphics cost too much to make for AAA games
Usman Qureshi / iPhone in Canada Blog: Are Hyperrealistic Video Games Worth the Cost?
Bluesky:
K. Morrissey / @katiedidnt: “Optimizing cinematic games for a narrow group of consumers who have spent hundreds of dollars on a console or computer may no longer make financial sense. Studios are increasingly prioritizing games with basic graphics that can be played on the smartphones already in everyone's pocket.”
Nathan Savant / @baldsavant: Have they considered just, I dunno, not making games into movies? — Maybe make games that are just really good at being games. — Maybe you don't need to wear someone else's clothes to fit in. Maybe you can find your own style. [embedded post]
Andrew Nolen / @anolen: How many gamers can tell if ray tracing is being used? I think the “diminishing returns” are based on our diminishing ability to perceive increased graphical performance. [embedded post]
Jason Murphy / @thestrangerous: This makes a pretty obivous argument for indie games.
Mastodon:
Threads:
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: Making a AAA game costs between $50 - $300 million given increasing expectations from users about the content, depth of gameplay and storytelling. However the AAA gaming industry has shrunk post-COVID and has to compete with streaming, TikTok, and perennial games (e.g. Roblox, Fortnite) for people's time. …
X:
Hemang Chauhan / @megaapple18: @ZacharyHSmall Would add perspective that lotta folks are missing = word-of-mouth. Magazine/TV era dominated 90s-00s home consoles and that's how teens and YA/adults formed their tastes (along with retail stores). Internet boom and E3 videos/trailers/fan content formed the basis in early 10s..
| Kyle Wiggers / TechCrunch: |
DeepSeek-V3 sometimes identifies itself as ChatGPT when asked which model it is; some speculate that its training datasets may contain text generated by ChatGPT — Earlier this week, DeepSeek, a well-funded Chinese AI lab, released an “open” AI model that beats many rivals on popular benchmarks.X:
Lucas Beyer / @giffmana: This actually reproduces as of today. In 5 out of 8 generations, DeepSeekV3 claims to be ChatGPT (v4), while claiming to be DeepSeekV3 only 3 times. Gives you a rough idea of some of their training data distribution. [image]
Sam Altman / @sama: it is (relatively) easy to copy something that you know works. it is extremely hard to do something new, risky, and difficult when you don't know if it will work. individual researchers rightly get a lot of glory for that when they do it! it's the coolest thing in the world.
Riley Goodside / @goodside: If DeepSeek-V3 is good because it trained on ChatGPT (which of course it did), why isn't Grok amazing? Why isn't *every* model amazing? Why spend 95% of compute pre-training a new model (which equals 405B on Pile-test btw) if the secret sauce is ~fOrBiDdEn~DaTa~ in the last 5%?
Arun Nagarajan / @entaq: 2+ years into the LLM era, I still can't explain how these things work. Here DeepSeek pretends to be GPT-4 🙄 [image]
Thomas / @distributionat: deepseek-v3 thinks it is chatgpt 10/10 times. surprising, because most models think they are the newest model. [image]
Anton / @abacaj: It's funny that SOTA models like deepseek will gladly output they are trained by OAI (1.5 years after gpt-4) but maybe not so funny... how hard could it be to steer the model in post training to not admit it is trained by OAI/GPT-4? It's obvious the model will output this when [image]
David Shapiro / @daveshapi: I saw a post yesterday that I think showed DeepSeek being asked what version it was (or something like that) and it said that it was ChatGPT trained by OpenAI, implying either stolen data or a stolen model. Was that a fabrication? Can anyone verify?
Forums:
| Brendan Bordelon / Politico: |
Tech lobbyists see new opportunities to expand access to high-skilled H-1B visas and green cards by leveraging the sway of Elon Musk over the GOP — A holiday blowup over immigration between Trump's tech advisers and the GOP base suggests the road may be littered with obstacles.
Bluesky: @jasonread, @tomwellborn3, @malwaretech.com, @ignotumaliquis, @antiquequaalude, @pwnallthethings, and @sharonk
Threads: @carnage4life and @carnage4life
X: @davidsacks, @twobitidiot, @kylegriffin1, @davidaxelrod, and @noahpinion
Forums: r/Defeat_Project_2025, r/centrist, r/conservatives, and r/politics
More:
Alana Mastrangelo / Breitbart: Elon Musk Brings Back Shadowbanning, Conservatives Report Loss of Verification Following H-1B Fracas
Michelle L. Price / Associated Press: Divisions are forming among Trump supporters after Elon Musk sparks a debate over hiring foreign tech workers
Alison Durkee / Forbes: What Are H-1B Visas? The Immigration Policy Dividing Elon Musk And Trump's Allies Explained
NBC Bay Area: Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy expose rift with MAGA loyalists over immigrant tech workers
Ashima Grover / Hindustan Times: MAGA up in arms against Sriram Krishnan as H-1B divides Trump supporters
Verne Kopytoff / Fortune: Netflix scores a record-setting touchdown with its NFL streaming on Christmas Day
Bluesky:
Jason Read / @jasonread: I am fairly skeptical of the idea that the Trump administration will be hindered by its contradictions, in this case between silicon valley tech bros and nationalists. Contradictions only matter if you are looking for coherence and not vibes based on spite and anger. — www.axios.com/2024/12/26/m...
@tomwellborn3: Despite Musk's influence, anti-immigrant forces and MAGA fearmongering threaten to block reforms, stalling progress yet again. www.politico.com/new... 2/2
Marcus Hutchins / @malwaretech.com: All the Tech VCs backing Trump because they thought he'd deregulate tech, then losing access to H1-B & O-1 visas (which is how US tech companies poach all the skilled foreign workers and maintain absolute market dominance) would be a real funny case of “I didn't think the leopard would eat MY face”.
Secretary Designate / @ignotumaliquis: 👇👇👇👇 THIS! — The GOP doesn't actually care about an invasion of brown & yellow people as long as they are H-1B tech workers coming in from India & China to take jobs away from American tech workers (at lower wage rates, of course). Hint: Neither do the Democrats. …
Blake Brown / @antiquequaalude: In hist 1st term Trump had said he'd get rid of the H-1B visa abuse that companies utilize to pay lower wages to foreign workers and fire Americans. Never happened, of course.
@pwnallthethings: Not the main thing here, but when real-life Einstein came to America, his visa was personally protested by organizations including the Women's Patriot Organization movement. If he were alive today, he'd as likely arrive under a refugee visa (or J-1) than under an O-1 [embedded post]
Sharon Kuruvilla / @sharonk: thiel capital has their talking points [image]
Threads:
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: Everyone who works in tech understands the reality of this charts below and that flat line has been flat regardless of who controls Congress or the White House for decades. The techies in the Trump admin have their work cut out for them to change this reality. I'll be happy if they can.
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: There are two topics where Democrats and Republicans are aligned; slowing down the pace of immigration (legal & illegal) and more money for police is always good. The tech bros entering the Trump administration are on a collision course with the GOP base if they attempt to increase legal immigration even if limited to “highly skilled workers.”
X:
David Sacks / @davidsacks: Sriram has been a U.S. citizen for a decade. He's not “running America.” He's advising on A.I. policy. He will have no influence over U.S. immigration policy. These attacks have become crude, and not in the holiday spirit. I'm signing off now. Have a merry Christmas.🎄
Ryan Selkis / @twobitidiot: Vivek did Trump a solid by provoking the H1B debate, because now DJT has a pulse check and more info on how best to tackle the challenge during the term. Thousands of ideas to pick and choose from, and no political downsides to watching the debate unfold from the golf course.
Kyle Griffin / @kylegriffin1: MAGA diehards are already attacking Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy and Trump isn't even in office yet.
Forums:
| Noah Smith / Noahpinion: |
Bluesky: @romitmehta.com, @thetnholler, @bucketlister88, @walterolson, @alternatebuild.dev, @gwensnyder, @jdportes, and @anildash.com
X: @levie, @nikkihaley, @jason, @davidsacks, @vivekgramaswamy, @lauraloomer, @elonmusk, @shaunmmaguire, @antoniogm, @balajis, @mattyglesias, @elonmusk, @nasescobar316, @nic__carter, @nic__carter, @devahaz, @paulg, @kiarichards_, @micah_erfan, @mcuban, @byyourlogic, @mattyglesias, @kelewarg, @josephpolitano, @financeguy725, @politicalmath, @armanddoma, @nickyfrank30, @sturgeons_law, @nobleqali, @noahpinion, @justalexoki, @armanddoma, @buccocapital, @krishnanrohit, @ronfilipkowski, @johncardillo, @eigenrobot, @krishnanrohit, @0xkarmatic, @mcuban, @lokijulianus, @aravsrinivas, @realgeorgehotz, @luke_metro, @nikkihaley, @ichthys30, @devahaz, @mattyglesias, @jeremykauffman, @sevaut, @lionel_trolling, @rubirosarevival, @rsanti97, @x_rahulraj, @armanddoma, @growing_daniel, @mattyglesias, @appyg99, @appyg99, @copyconstruct, @quantian1, @auronmacintyre, @davidsacks, @nkulw, @teroterotero, @steinkobbe, @teroterotero, @hodgetwins, @rakeshsfnyc, @teroterotero, @mayankseksaria, @alecstapp, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @cremieuxrecueil, @armanddoma, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @mattyglesias, @trueanonpod, @businessbarista, @armanddoma, @plzbepatient, @grantslatton, @grantslatton, @dvassallo, @pitdesi, @davidsacks, @garrytan, @teroterotero, @basedbeffjezos, @grimezsz, @alecstapp, @tracewoodgrains, @gavinwax, @therabbithole84, @armanddoma, @graduatedben, @bgurley, @lauraloomer, @yacinemtb, @stillgray, @scottbelsky, @mattyglesias, @themagahulk, @baxate_carter, @suhail, @levie, @paulg, @alecstapp, @ritchietorres, @jackposobiec, @growing_daniel, @davidu, @firstadopter, @richardhanania, @eyeslasho, @bennpeifert, @richardhanania, @catehall, @boonafterboon, @andrewyng, @presentwitness_, @rokhanna, @josephpolitano, @alecstapp, @elonmusk, @austen, @harmlessyarddog, @teroterotero, @kurtschlichter, @annagorisch, @sarthakgh, @thestalwart, @parikpatelcfa, @parikpatelcfa, @parikpatelcfa, @dmitry140, @sarthakgh, @paulg, @parikpatelcfa, @parikpatelcfa, @jlippincott_, @stillgray, @wolfejosh, @jlippincott_, @firstadopter, @noahpinion, @parikpatelcfa, @levie, @yacinemtb, @raghavendrapv, @mrinconcruz, @theworthyhouse, @jackposobiec, @theworthyhouse, @pitdesi, @cloudwatch199, @matt_levine_1, @nasescobar316, @rishijoesanu, @luke_metro, @tanknothink, @tunguz, @fischerking64, @alltheinternets, @mattyglesias, @davidsacks, @elonmusk, @davidsacks, @mattyglesias, @davidmarcus, @vivekgramaswamy, @davidsacks, @lauraloomer, @rmsherman, @elonmusk, @elonmusk, @basedtorba, @bgmasters, @matt_levine_1, @jamessurowiecki, @levie, @armanddoma, @balajis, @jtlonsdale, and @theworthyhouse
Forums: r/politics, r/thebulwark, r/thedavidpakmanshow, r/neoliberal, and r/ProfessorFinance
More:
New York Times: Trump Backers, Including Elon Musk, Clash With Far Right Over Immigrant Workers and H-1B Visas
Tim Higgins / Wall Street Journal: MAGA vs. Musk: Immigration Fight Cracks Populist-Tech Bro Alliance
Katherine Doyle / NBC News: Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy open rift with MAGA loyalists over skilled worker visas
John Binder / Breitbart: Trump Supporters Push Back After President-Elect Appoints Adviser Who Wants H-1B Expansion: ‘Tech Wants Indentured Servants’
Ace / acecomments.mu.nu: Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamey Roil MAGA with Calls for Increased H-1B Visas for Skilled Tech Workers
Ted Johnson / Deadline: “That Pretty Much Sums It Up”: Elon Musk Defends H-1B Visas Amid Split Between Trump Tech Bros And MAGA ‘Right Right’
Justin Baragona / The Independent: ‘Should MAGA stay home in 2026?’ Laura Loomer wages ‘racist’ war against ‘tech bros’ over Indian migrants
Phillip Molnar / San Diego Union-Tribune: Should the U.S. increase immigration levels for highly skilled workers?
Tomoki Chien / The San Francisco Standard: Tech clashes with far-right MAGA in weird online battle over skilled work visas
The Post Millennial: ‘America first means the American people first’: Tech industry clashes with MAGA base on H-1B visa debate
Julia Shapero / The Hill: Musk, Ramaswamy defend Silicon Valley's foreign-born hires
Josh Kovensky / Talking Points Memo: Who Got Duped? MAGA Activists Worry That Nativism And Tech Oligarchy May Not Go Hand In Hand
Florence Muchai / Cryptopolitan: Elon Musk, through D.O.G.E., plans to get Silicon Valley back on track and fix the immigration crisis
Tom Boggioni / Raw Story: ‘Has MAGA been duped?’ Trump fans freak out over new plan from unelected ‘DOGE twins’
Paul Ingrassia / The Gateway Pundit: What Elon and Vivek Get Wrong About The H-1B Visa Debate
Streiff / RedState: Can Trump's MAGA Movement Accommodate Low-Immigration America First and High Immigration Tech Titans?
Bluesky:
Romit Mehta / @romitmehta.com: Had a pretty pleasant Christmas Day watching NBA and NFL and in the process completely missed the anti-Indian campaign started by the MAGA right, specifically targeting Sriram and expanding it to all Indians and H-1B workers. — Can't say I did not see this coming, tbh. — x.com/LauraLoomer/...
@thetnholler: In-fighting : “The new MAGA coalition has officially had its first internal debate - over H-1b visas. It started when Trump appointed Sriram Krishnan...” — Elon & the tech bros shocked to realize they're in coalition with those who hate all immigrants.
@bucketlister88: Worked in tech with Indians on H-1B. Few were excellent (10%) remaining 90% were horrible. Their coding standards were sub-par and they'd push anything to production just to say they delivered. Our company experienced a huge shift in morale. The greater # of Indians the worse our culture became.
Walter Olson / @walterolson: TIL: the nativist lobby group that calls itself “US Tech Workers” doesn't actually represent any organized body of actual U.S. tech workers, and Its founder doesn't “appear to have ever done the type of job that an H-1b worker might be hired to do.” [embedded post]
@alternatebuild.dev: imo “discover” here could be swapped for “finally forced to reckon with” — boy the related discourse on “the other site” makes me cynical, but we're going to remain optimistic! we can learn!
@gwensnyder: The world's richest man (from South Africa) and a Nazi propagandist from Malaysia spent their Christmas night complaining that the xenophobic base they helped manufacture to elect a nativist needs to understand that we still need to allow immigration for important groups like Nazi space scientists [image]
Jonathan Portes / @jdportes: Ignoring the slightly clickbait title, @noahpinion.blogsky.venki.dev makes an important empirical point here about skilled immigration which is highly relevant to the current UK debate. — [1/n] — www.noahpinion.blog/p/indian- imm...
Anil Dash / @anildash.com: I used to know Sriram a long time ago; had coffee with him and met his wife and he told me he used to read my blog. After he fell in with the Andreessen types and became their pet during the Clubhouse era, I told him it was gonna end like this. We haven't spoken since, but... lie down with dogs. …
X:
Aaron Levie / @levie: Did not have Nikki Haley coming out against high skilled immigration on my bingo card. [image]
Nikki Haley / @nikkihaley: When I was governor in SC our unemployment went from 11% to 4%. How? Not by hiring foreign workers. We recruited foreign companies to invest in SC but not their workers. We retrained South Carolinians in our tech schools for these new jobs. The companies started apprentice
@jason: We should RECRUIT the best entrepreneurs & the smartest .1% of humans on the planet to start companies here in the USA The reason we are winning so much right now — with the lowest unemployment of our lifetimes — is because we let fabulously driven individuals into America
David Sacks / @davidsacks: @LauraLoomer @sriramk Point of clarification: Sriram didn't say he wants to remove all caps on green cards. He said he wants to remove *country* caps on green cards. Right now, every country in the world gets allocated the same number of green cards, no matter how many qualified applicants it has. So
Vivek Ramaswamy / @vivekgramaswamy: The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: Deeply disturbing to see the appointment of Sriram Krishnan @sriramk as Senior Policy Advisor for AI at the Office of Science and Technology Policy. It's alarming to see the number of career leftists who are now being appointed to serve in Trump's admin when they share views [image]
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: The “fixed pie” fallacy is at the heart of much wrong-headed economic thinking. There is essentially infinite potential for job and company creation. Think of all the things that didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago!
Shaun Maguire / @shaunmmaguire: IMO the underlying issue on this “Tech vs MAGA” debate Is that anti white racism has been real in America for at least the last decade I've experienced it first hand It has created a lot of pain, as all racism does Most either don't appreciate this or are afraid to say it
Antonio García Martínez / @antoniogm: As a meta-comment, it's fascinating to see this debate play out live, in the gladiatorial arena, with near-zero meddling from the content moderation people or the mainstream media. The national agora at internet scale is here. Everything else is a sideshow.
Balaji / @balajis: Funny you mention that! Because Prafulla Dhariwal is an International Math Olympiad and International Physics Olympiad gold medalist with a 5.0 GPA from MIT. And he led the development of GPT-4o. [image]
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Cutting edge thinking: We have Indian-American CEOs at Google and Microsoft because of a Jewish plot to sabotage America.
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @iamyesyouareno @MarioNawfal Your understanding of the situation is upside-down and backwards. OF COURSE my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans and we DO, as that is MUCH easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process. HOWEVER, there is a dire shortage of extremely
@nic__carter: Trumps rainbow coalition of tech bros and blood and soil nationalists appears to have collapsed 25 days before he takes office
@nic__carter: I do think serious questions need to be asked of the H1B system and how it affects the wages of Americans tech workers, but the right way to open that discussion is not via a xenophobic tirade against one of our best.
Deva Hazarika / @devahaz: There are two types of shocked right wing tech bros right now: 1) self-serving liars who thought they'd see no opposition to enriching their enterprises in any way they saw fit 2) people who don't care or know anything about MAGA or RW politics and just jumped on a bandwagon
Paul Graham / @paulg: I don't think I've ever seen a Twitter dispute that was so one-sided. All the people who understand tech, on both right and left, are on one side, and the other side is just anonymous accounts and political commentators.
Kia Richards / @kiarichards_: Observing the clash between MAGA loyalists and the Tech Right over immigration feels like the ultimate “I told you so” moment for Black Americans. We warned other POCs that the “America First” narrative was coded language for a white ethno-state, which doesn't include them.
Micah Erfan / @micah_erfan: Team neonazi vs Team techbro [image]
Mark Cuban / @mcuban: In an AI world, where free online sources of information have already been used as training data, and new sources are being siloed, as owned IP, don't we need more people with varied expertise, including Liberal Arts, to contribute to models, to correct hallucinations, and to
@byyourlogic: this is one of the funniest posts I have ever seen in my life. I've never seen a guy misjudge things quite like this. he spent YEARS pretending to laugh at Babylon Bee headlines so he could post this!
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: We must reject both the prom queen and the math olympiad champ in favor of America's true heroes, the goths.
@kelewarg: It's not wild. It is the seed that was sown with the heavy anti-immigration rhetoric. The thing with any heavily negative emotionally-driven wave targeting the “other”, especially if you're not part of the in-group, is you get burned eventually.
@josephpolitano: this is mostly a lot of text to say little of substance, but try to imagine the backlash if Harris had said in so many words “the reason we take in a ton of immigrants right now is because you jock worshippers don't have the culture for success” [image]
Kyle O'Hehir / @financeguy725: I didn't go to a top-tier university I got a front office job on the buyside out of undergrad This is a skill issue/cope
PoIiMath / @politicalmath: I'm looking for a job in the tech industry, which puts me in a weird space with the debate over visas and tech workers On the one hand, I can honestly say that I have never personally worked with an H1B visa holder who I thought was stealing an American job I have worked with
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: foreign students pay way more than American ones do, so if you kicked them out, *fewer* Americans would get a college education because the latter subsidizes the former
Nicky Frank / @nickyfrank30: Me watching MAGA go after Indian immigrants after Indian-Americans swung to Trump. [image]
@sturgeons_law: I'm surprised the tech right is flaunting their open contempt for the populist MAGA types before Trump is even in office.
Q. Anthony Ali / @nobleqali: I know this man has been waiting his WHOLE LIFE to give this speech I'm fuckin deceased this is Beat It Chick for the stinky lunches kids ☠️☠️☠️ [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Immigration is our superpower
@justalexoki: imagine trolling an entire website so hard people with millions of followers try to get you fired and your CEO replies “🔥🤣” [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: at the end of the day, a lot of nativist sentiment is just “crabs in a bucket” stupidity. as if deporting a bunch of Indians is going to magically spawn an army of Applachian machine learning engineers
@buccocapital: Tech bros forming a coalition with nativists and white supremacists to elect Trump [image]
Rohit / @krishnanrohit: “I'm not good enough to get hired but I will do the job at double the salary” is quite an offer [image]
Ron Filipkowski / @ronfilipkowski: BREAKING: MAGA has suddenly realized the Tech Bros are globalists.
John Cardillo / @johncardillo: This is one of the most offensive things I've read. America and Americans are not mediocre. India is a filthy third world hellscape. If it's so exceptional, why doesn't its tech talent want to stay there?
@eigenrobot: man. idk the number of posts ive seen like this is genuinely shocking to me and makes me more inclined to support obnoxious immigration restrictions tbqh something is going very badly wrong with integration if this is a common expressive response among indians
Rohit / @krishnanrohit: Look, let's use this example as a platform to talk about immigration. This because I'm quite sure eigen isn't a racist. So, first, immigration isn't just about economics. It's naturally fraught. People dislike culture drift, blame outsiders for their ills. Tale as old as time.
Karma / @0xkarmatic: If Thiel would be looking at what Vivek and Elon are saying right now, he would tell them turn their phones off and not post for a while. Learn how to read the room.
Mark Cuban / @mcuban: How do you feel about people who say “college is over rated ?” In order to have more homegrown engineers, don't we need more kids going to college ?
Aravind Srinivas / @aravsrinivas: 🧐
George Hotz / @realgeorgehotz: Most engineers are not in America, a simple fact about population size. Why discriminate based on country? Sounds very DEI. We discriminate based on skill and work ethic. If you prove yourself through our bounties, both @comma_ai and @__tinygrad__ would love to hire you.
Nikki Haley / @nikkihaley: There is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. All you have to do is look at the border and see how many want what we have. We should be investing and prioritizing in Americans, not foreign workers.
Sulla / @ichthys30: Really weird to me how every person here says they put in 100 applications and got no call backs and every business owner on X said they put out job openings and got zero applications from natives and just HAVE to hire H1-B. Really makes you think ....
Deva Hazarika / @devahaz: I don't think “Americans need to turn all their kids into a bunch of super nerds or get replaced by foreigners” is the winning conservative message Vivek seems to believe it is
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: I think it's 100 percent accurate to say that the idea of expanding legal immigration of skilled workers was rejected at the ballot box when Trump won. But it's still a good idea, and Trump frequently lies to and betrays his supporters, so he should do it on this.
Jeremy Kauffman / @jeremykauffman: Everyone sees Indian immigration the way they've experienced it: 1 - High-tech and elite firms see the exceptionally talented with no equivalent American substitute. 2 - The low- and mid-tier tech worker is familiar with Indian department takeovers. 3 - Average Americans have
Seva / @sevaut: watching the techno-reactionaries battle the ethno-reactionaries over immigration [image]
John Ganz / @lionel_trolling: The big contradiction on the right now is that immigrant voters are proving themselves to be pretty open to right-wing politics but the movement's racists are like “No this is about us white people”
Rubirosa / @rubirosarevival: IT outsourcing firm Cognizant has received 52k H1B visas since 2009, more than any other American company. Almost all went to Indians. In October a federal jury ruled the company had intentionally discriminated against more than 2,000 non-Indian employees employed from 2013-22. [image]
Santi Ruiz / @rsanti97: Every advocate for high-skilled immigration I know has been flagging these issues with the H1B for years.
Rahul Raj / @x_rahulraj: Sriram Krishnan will face backlash in USA because American public don't want talented Indians to fix things for their country Sriram Krishnan will struggle in India because Indian politicians don't want talented Indians to fix things for their country
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: the idea that the only reason Silicon Valley is full of Indian and Chinese software engineers is the Civil Rights Act is genuinely so funny. you dumb fucks
Daniel / @growing_daniel: Why do people who don't like immigrants even care about the h1b thing. This is a small number of immigrants and most of them go to a city that you would not step foot in. They're also highly civilized intelligent people. Aren't you mad about Venezuelan gangs
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Before he became a politician, this was @JDVance's thing — applying the traditional conservative critique of African-American culture to the white working class, and criticizing Trump for cynically exploiting that pathology rather than addressing it.
Apoorva Govind / @appyg99: 4/ if you want to fix the H1B issue, remove lotteries, reject the Indian service agencies from gaming the system, introduce a points system like the rest of the world. Set a high bar for what qualifies as skilled immigration.
Apoorva Govind / @appyg99: I've been on both sides of the H1B Visa.For context, I graduated with a Masters degree from Carnegie Mellon, interned at Nvidia, worked at Apple, then at Uber & eventually started my own company. Every year the US grants 85,000 H1Bs. For context, approx 2.1M ppl immigrate
Cindy Sridharan / @copyconstruct: Many “anti-DEI” legal immigrants who celebrated Trump are now realizing that “America first” is fundamentally incompatible with their dreams of “global meritocracy”. And that Trump's core base is comprised of people who find their presence in America to be rather undesirable. [image]
@quantian1: VIVEK NO YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN NOW!!! YOU CAN'T SAY PEOPLE ARE UNSUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF A DYSFUNCTIONAL CULTURE, LACK OF POSITIVE ROLE MODELS, AND AN ENTITLED VICTIM MENTALITY!!! NO VIVEK THEY'RE WHITE PEOPLE!!! YOU HAVE TO SAY IT'S STRUCTURAL FORCES AND NOT THEIR FAULT VIVEK!!! [image]
Auron MacIntyre / @auronmacintyre: The h1-b visa doesn't exist to get you the once in a generation talent That's the o-1 visa and it will continue to exist The h1-b is exploited to replace the middle class
David Sacks / @davidsacks: Actually, I completely trust @StephenM to handle immigration policy in the White House. What I oppose is a baseless witch hunt against a highly qualified American for a role as A.I. adviser.
Noah Kulwin / @nkulw: I am a fan of the H-1B visa but I do not support the underpaid immigrants it brings over nor the people they are meant to replace [pelted with trash, canceled permanently]
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: OK now I'm getting nervous as a Finnish American LOL... getting kind of Weimary
@steinkobbe: Suddenly they have an issue with the fact Vivek got rich from scamming people after he said tech companies should be allowed to hire foreigners [image]
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Vivek really thinks he can win over these people by helpfully pointing out that a smart Indian is better than a dim white American. He truly is just grabbing a live wire with both hands while giving that big toothy grin. Like that Squid Games dude yelling “Not My Fault!!”
@hodgetwins: Americans should be hired and trained before any foreigner Don't know how this is controversial 🤷🏾♂️
Rakesh Agrawal / @rakeshsfnyc: I know I'm in a bubble, but I'm glad we're having a serious discussion on high-skilled immigration. It hasn't been purely one-sided; some in tech world are calling for reform of H-1B abuses. 🤞🏾it turns into a real policy discussion versus just as shouting match. I've worked
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: He keeps talking... he dimly realizes he is in a lot of trouble with his base, but he keeps digging himself deeper... this is fascinating in a grotesque sort of manner.
Mayank Seksaria / @mayankseksaria: [image]
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: Only 14% of US residents are immigrants. But immigrants are responsible for 36% of aggregate innovation. Two-thirds of this contribution is due to making their native-born collaborators better. [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Amazing community note
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: In fact, native-born Americans CAN fulfill tech jobs. They don't have a skill deficit. But the number of jobs is NOT FIXED. When we hire more H-1bs and other skilled foreigners, corporations invest more in America, and native-born people get MORE tech jobs and higher wages!
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Yes to all of these except “more liked or respected abroad”, and that one is on you
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: The fact is, America has only 4% of the world's population. You can't be the center of the global tech industry if your talent pool is only 4% of the population, no matter how talented that 4% is. We need to draw on the whole world for talent to stay at the center of things.
@cremieuxrecueil: People love to brag about their country doing better than America in mathematics competitions. But that doesn't matter. America ultimately receives a massively disproportionate number of IMO medalists. [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: these people will go on about how we shouldn't import talent from abroad but invest in talent at home and then argue we should massively defund public education and abolish the Department of Education. They don't actually believe in anything, they're just bitter angry losers [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: The fight on the Right over Indian immigration is a reminder of why we used to have this useful term called “racist” that we could use to dismiss people who obviously just want a future of chaos and destruction for America. [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Sorry, rightists. Indian immigrants are making America great! https://www.noahpinion.blog/ ...
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Winning a Poaster War against the groypers over visas for skilled workers is a lot easier than engaging in the legislative dealmaking needed to enact statutory changes to improve and expand the H1B system or replace it with something bigger and better.
@trueanonpod: Vivek intervenes in the MAGA civil war by saying the reason tech companies need to bring H1-B visa employees over is because Americans failed to venerate Steve Urkel
Alex Lieberman / @businessbarista: @levie @AlecStapp the #1 macroeconomic moat on the planet. why we need to continue to make sure the U.S. is a marketable product to the best & brightest
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: the tactic of course is to spew endless insane racist shit against Indians all day, and then find a random Indian guy who popped off in a crass way, and say this justifies the insane racist shit in the first place [image]
@plzbepatient: When Donald Trump was lying prone on a stage in Butler, PA, blood dripping down his face, he realized at that moment a true sense of purpose: uncapped immigration from India
Grant Slatton / @grantslatton: it's weird that there is this conspiracy that big tech companies use h-1b visa employees to avoid hiring americans we hired everyone we could find — americans, chinese, indians, russians, whatever most were just simply not good enough, including many americans
Grant Slatton / @grantslatton: The nationalist responses to this are basically “you should hire low-agency uneducated Americans like me and teach me the things Zhang and Pradeep taught themselves on a $20 android phone” What did you get done last week?
Daniel Vassallo / @dvassallo: Musk really gets it here. Education is important, but not sufficient. With the internet everyone has access to all the necessary education. What varies greatly between people is the motivation to learn and keep learning. [image]
Sheel Mohnot / @pitdesi: Midwit take: Indians can't found companies Reality: H-1B's tie immigrants to employers, making it hard to start companies. Indians rose to CEO roles bc they couldn't leave to build their own Country quotas mean decades-long green card waits for founders like @AravSrinivas 😢
David Sacks / @davidsacks: Number of illegal aliens/year: 3+ million. Number of employment visas/year: 140k. As a start, maybe we should focus on the 95% where we all agree.
Garry Tan / @garrytan: Keep skilled immigration legal [image]
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Heartbreaking to see American CEOs trying to make sensible arguments to persuade MAGA. Can they really be this naive?
@basedbeffjezos: Maybe we phrase high-skilled immigration as critical talent acquisition and adversarial skill exfiltration from opponents. The US needs to continue to Project Paperclip all other countries at all times to stay on top. Maintain US tech dominance is paramount to protect freedom.
@grimezsz: Suddenly concocting anti Indian energy out of nowhere is embarrassing yall. Also, they were clear they planned to do this. My step dad's Indian, I had a fire childhood in a half Indian household. Indian culture jives very well w western culture.
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: This is 100% right. We should be doing everything we can to attract top global talent. Let's build a superteam and win forever. [image]
@tracewoodgrains: this sounds cocky but is entirely true most fields are talent-constrained in major ways that become apparent as soon as you focus on anything specific that requires competence take journalism. many more important stories to tell than top-tier writers to tell them
Gavin Mario Wax / @gavinwax: I have a friend whose entire job used to be interviewing American job applicants to claim that they were unqualified so the company could hire a cheaper H1B1 applicant. They never intended to hire Americans. The entire thing is a sick fraud. “Good faith recruiting” my ass.
@therabbithole84: From the article: “Sixty percent of the highest-valued tech companies were co-founded by first- or second-generation immigrants.” [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: these people just openly want to make America a vastly poorer country. just incredible
Dr. Ben Braddock / @graduatedben: A modest proposal that will make everyone happy: Move Silicon Valley to India. Founders, VCs, employees, entire companies. Build a replica of San Francisco at Navi Mumbai. Silicon Valley gets cheap engineers, and we get rid of Silicon Valley. Win-Win
Bill Gurley / @bgurley: Big fan and supporter of @sriramk. Feel fortunate that he has volunteered to serve.
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: This X employee wants you to know that “America wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Indian excellence”. Bio says he is an engineer at @x. [image]
Kache / @yacinemtb: I guess I can't be surprised that people don't know how difficult it is to find and hire a team of top .001 percentile operators, because they aren't top .001 percentile operators and could never be even if they tried
Ian Miles Cheong / @stillgray: Are you trying to cancel 𝕏 employees now.
Scott Belsky / @scottbelsky: another example of the spread of inaccuracy via algo polarization...sending extra special holiday vibes to my friend @sriramk who is battling plenty of misinfo and worse at the moment. but bigger pic: excited to see smart and dedicated minds in tech determined to fix things.
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: I don't think it's true that we built the bomb or went to the moon without foreign-born talent. [image]
Lucky / @themagahulk: My wife worked for a company that was purchased by a private equity firm that immediately brought in an Indian CEO. He pushed out all the founders and replaced all the C-suite with Indians. He used Covid as excuse to force every employee to take a “temporary” 10% pay cut and he
@baxate_carter: let me get this straight, you want companies to favor american workers even if they aren't as qualified as their H1-B counterparts purely because the american was born here some might call that an inalienable trait. So the people who are against DEI, want a DEI program to
@suhail: The open racism of Indians is a gift from the weak minded to us that we need to plan for the future. This is just the beginning.
Aaron Levie / @levie: High skilled immigration has been central to America leading the world in tech. The biggest misunderstand about high skill immigration stems from people thinking that the market opportunities in tech, and tech-adjacent fields, are zero sum. This essentially imagines innovation
Paul Graham / @paulg: @levie The problem with the phrase “zero sum” is that the kind of people who mistakenly believe things are zero-sum tend not to know what it means...
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: There is not a fixed number of tech jobs in the US. When we block skilled immigration, companies just hire more in foreign countries. Letting talented people move here is the ultimate win-win. [image]
Ritchie Torres / @ritchietorres: The personal attacks on Sriram Krishnan are disgraceful. Sriram is an American Dream success story. He represents what is best about America, and his haters represent what is worst. America should be defined not by color but by creed.
Jack Poso / @jackposobiec: J.D. Vance: New Congress Must Go After Corporations Replacing Americans with Foreign H-1B Visa Workers https://www.breitbart.com/...
Daniel / @growing_daniel: When I was a little kid I dreamed of someday becoming a Senior White House Policy Advisor on Artificial Intelligence. Then an immigrant stole my job
David Ulevitch / @davidu: The funny thing about the Sriram hubbub, which is really a nothing burger except on X, is that he renounced his Indian citizenship to become a US citizen, which is a lot more of a commitment to America than most people make. 🙂🇺🇸💯
Tae Kim / @firstadopter: Immigration is America's superpower. The U.S. has dominated global technology by attracting the world's best and brightest talent. Satya Nadella, Microsoft's CEO who guided the company's transition to cloud and created trillions in value, was born in India.
Richard Hanania / @richardhanania: “If they're so smart, they can build their own country” I love when white proles who have done nothing in their miserable lives think that they're Edison or John Rockefeller. The CEOs of major tech companies have done a lot more to build the country than you, sorry to tell you. [image]
@eyeslasho: Let me express this another way: A reason that Indian-Americans may get more “hate” than East Asian-Americans is because they share more of the often-unpleasant personality features of European-ancestry Americans: They're more likely to be aggressive, individualistic,
@bennpeifert: Don't think being a model minority will satisfy the racists Don't bring them in as political partners and be surprised racism is their priority Don't stoke racism against blacks, mexicans and middle easterners and be shocked when they come for educated Indians Don't be
Richard Hanania / @richardhanania: Usually, we should stick to ideas and not focus on credentials. But when your entire thing is racism, and you want to take credit for what previous generations have built, you have made it about identity. It becomes fair game to point out how unaccomplished these racists are. [image]
Cate Hall / @catehall: The Discourse about whether it's bad to let cheap H1B labor undercut American workers is incredible because employers ***aren't allowed to pay H1B employees less than their American counterparts*** In practice it is substantially MORE expensive to employ H1Bs
Andrew Ng / @andrewyng: One of the best things the U.S. can do is make high-skill immigration easier. @levie is right. It is awful that the wait time for a green card can be over a decade, and that after waiting years someone can still be forced to leave simply because they lost a job. Fixing this is
@presentwitness_: Now that H-1B has become a topic of discussion, here's my story: Born in Appalachia, went to a top-tier university, interned in wealth management and trading, recruited for all the top investment banks and research firms, only offer I received was to cold call South American
Ro Khanna / @rokhanna: Yes, I am proud of his support. I am for reforming the H1-B system. And I guess the test of your influence with the new President is whether @sriramk will have his role. My money is on him. Having people smart about tech and the future of AI is good for America.
@josephpolitano: a smarter man than David would perhaps realize a campaign stoking anti immigrant backlash against Mexicans, Haitians, Guatemalans, etc would inevitably lead to anti immigration backlash against Indian tech workers. Don't play with fire and then say it's a psyop when you get burnt
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @Austen Exactly
Austen Allred / @austen: Look, two things are true: 1. H1B is used to bring in absolutely brilliant engineers, without whom American competitiveness diminishes and the entire US economy is harmed. 2. H1B is poorly implemented and abused like crazy.
@harmlessyarddog: A white dude applied to work at X for free, didn't even get a response. There are ethnic mafias inside tech HR, this is an open secret. [image]
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Elon getting devoured by his pet tiger
Kurt Schlichter / @kurtschlichter: There's an easy solution to the H1-B “highly skilled” visa issue. Since it's so vital we have foreigners coming in because there are allegedly not enough Americans, companies who want them can pay $50K a year tax on each visa worker they hire. If they are that essential...
Anna K. Gorisch / @annagorisch: If I could destroy just one immigration myth, it would be the claim that it's cheaper for employers to hire someone with an H-1B. It is exactly the opposite. Filing fees for one H-1B are about $5k, then there are lawyers. You also have to retain an employee to manage internal
Sar Haribhakti / @sarthakgh: Those most outraged about companies allegedly hiring on H1 to save costs clearly have no idea how many hoops workers and companies have to jump through to get H1s It is exceptionally hard to compete with citizens who are much easier and cheaper to hire in competitive industries
Joe Weisenthal / @thestalwart: Vivek Ramaswamy says the reason US companies hire foreign born talent is because of the degeneracy of American culture, which prizes jocks over nerds, and Stefan over Urkel in Saved By The Bell [image]
@parikpatelcfa: The CEO of Google is Indian The CEO of Microsoft is Indian The CEO of Adobe is Indian The CEO of IBM is Indian The CEO of Chanel is Indian The CEO of FedEx is Indian The CEO of Palo Alto Networks is Indian The CEO of Perplexity is Indian So yes. Indians are “high skilled
@parikpatelcfa: If Indian immigrants are so bad for America why did America name a whole state after us [image]
Dmitry Shevelenko / @dmitry140: I'm an American who is gainfully employed because an Indian immigrant on a visa founded a company in the US. Thx @AravSrinivas for creating 100+ American jobs.
Sar Haribhakti / @sarthakgh: Try looking up roles played by Indian immigrants in the invention of pentium microprocessor, hotmail, ethernet switching, java, usb, transformer that power the current llm wave, and much more
Paul Graham / @paulg: As a rule the people who know the most about something are the pros whose incomes depend on doing it well. The pros at judging tech talent are venture capitalists. If venture capitalists' opinions differ from white nationalists', it's clear who's more likely to be right.
@parikpatelcfa: I came to America on an H-1B visa The process was a shitshow and I was very lucky to be picked in the lottery U.S immigration is broken, but the answer isn't making it harder for talented and hardworking people to come here
@parikpatelcfa: What's the word for when someone takes the actions of two individuals who happen to share a common heritage and generalizes them to an entire race?
Josiah Lippincott / @jlippincott_: “These third worlders with fake credentials are HARDER workers and SMARTER than you and your neighbors. You need to let them rule over you.” Nope!
Ian Miles Cheong / @stillgray: There would be no 𝕏 if it wasn't for the skilled immigrants who helped make it what it is today under the direction of Elon Musk, a skilled immigrant. [image]
Josh Wolfe / @wolfejosh: Truth. India is an important US ally and we should be doing more not less against shared threats especially those that wish us both harm.
Josiah Lippincott / @jlippincott_: These are the two Twitter executives who banned my account for 2 and a half years without cause. So, yes, I have an axe to grind with “high skill” Indian migrants. [image]
Tae Kim / @firstadopter: Only in America could an immigrant like Jensen Huang—who started by cleaning bathrooms, washing dishes and attending a state school—meet Curtis and Chris at Denny's, get VC funding and cofound the world's most consequential company Nvidia. Immigration is America's superpower.
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: H-1b workers are good for the economy. And on an unrelated note, all the rightists now bashing Indians on X and other platforms are full of crap. https://www.noahpinion.blog/ ...
@parikpatelcfa: As long as we hating on Indians let's cancel my college roommate Sheel Patel fuck that guy he still owes me $35
Aaron Levie / @levie: This chart shows the net migration levels of inventors to and from countries. America has more inventors coming here than all countries combined. This is our economic secret weapon that has been tuned for hundreds of years. [image]
Raghav V P / @raghavendrapv: How do you not see the economic contributions of the highly-skilled immigrants? Is it that you want to keep this class of contributors oppressed? I hope you see the broader picture that prioritizes highly-skilled immigrants (and not beneficiaries of chain immigration) is an
Manny / @mrinconcruz: Laura makes a good point—removing caps as Sriram suggests would create an application spamming situation. Which by the way is already the case with applications from India in many areas, including student visas. My own take is that Srirams position is unwise. The skilled
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: The reason Musk wants more Indians is because he knows that to get to Mars, he needs top talent RIGHT NOW, and he can skim the cream of Indians to do so. Rebuilding American education, on the other hand, will take decades, and require a birth rate reversal, neither of which can
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: Musk's claim that there are not enough “talented and motivated” engineers in America may be true, but the reason for it is decades of vicious hobbling of white men. For example, it is extremely difficult for white men to get into top engineering programs at a university. Most
Sheel Mohnot / @pitdesi: GOP has been far more aligned than the dems. Helped win the election Skilled immigration is causing a fissure though. Many on the right do not want ANY immigrants in this country, esp Indians. 47 has picked well so I think we're good but the Groypers are out in full force
Sidharth / @cloudwatch199: LauraLoomer , your tweet is a masterclass in ignorance wrapped in xenophobia. Sriram Krishnan's (@sriramk )appointment is a reflection of expertise and leadership—qualities you seem incapable of recognizing. Silicon Valley wasn't built by clinging to outdated fantasies; it
Matt Levine / @matt_levine_1: All rhetoric against H-1B visas is basically: “I'm losing in the labor market, but I want a participation trophy anyway” Workers compete vs. each other. If one works at a combination of [quality / speed / cost] superior to the other, the former wins. Train harder next time!
Nas / @nasescobar316: @AllTheInternets It's what makes America weak. They have shut American Workers out of the workforce in favor of H1-B Indians. The only people who benefit are India, Greedy Tech Companies & Greedy Investors. American Citizens are the ones losing in this situation.
Malabar ChRishimas / @rishijoesanu: When will American right wingers learn that country caps on immigration is a DEI policy? America leaves Indian Physics Olympiad winners on the table in favor of Costa Rican farmers because of country caps
Lorenzo / @tanknothink: what “American STEM students” lol
Bojan Tunguz / @tunguz: LOL, yeah, the largely pro-immigration technocratic Silicon Valley libertarians and the nativist, isolationist, rural anti-tech right have very little in common aside from the loathing for the anti-free-speech woke Left. It will be interesting to see how long this alliance can
FischerKing / @fischerking64: Repeat observation, but there is something absurd about importing ‘high-skilled’ foreigners at the same time as the USA has been eliminating advanced programs in public schools that might identify domestic talent - all in the name of DEI. We don't even know how much domestic
Zeb Anderson / @alltheinternets: @nasescobar316 Indian Americans are literally running the most successful (also American) companies in the world. Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), etc. It's what makes America great brother.
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Who could have predicted crude immigration-related attacks coming from the Trump movement? [image]
David Sacks / @davidsacks: It's a different person with the same name. If you knew anything about tech, you might even know he's a VC at a different firm. Have you told the President yet? Maybe it's time to stop with this crusade before you embarrass yourself further.
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: @JTLonsdale What are low-end H1B immigrants?
David Marcus / @davidmarcus: This whole cabal against @sriramk is totally out of control. There's no self serving agenda whatsoever here, nor character flaws. We should celebrate people like Sriram who are going to leave so much $ on the table to serve the country. Enough of this nonsense.
Vivek Ramaswamy / @vivekgramaswamy: America-First means we want America to WIN. Playing for second place doesn't cut it.
David Sacks / @davidsacks: @LauraLoomer @sriramk I agree there's a contradiction. You'll be happy to know that no one on the AI team will be working on immigration policy so their views on green cards are irrelevant. I think we can also agree that before even discussing legal immigration, we should completely seal the border
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: @DavidSacks @sriramk Average tech policy bro: “AI is going to put software engineers out of work within 5 years!” Also average tech policy bro: “We need to import tens of thousands more software engineers from India!” Which one is it, @DavidSacks? You should let us know what these Indian
Rob Sherman / @rmsherman: .@sriramk was one of the first PMs I worked with after joining Facebook 12+ yrs ago. I don't know yet if I'll agree with all his views on AI, but he's highly qualified. We should all want someone with his expertise advising @realDonaldTrump & @DavidSacks on how the US can lead on
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @iamyesyouareno @MarioNawfal It comes down to this: do you want America to WIN or do you want America to LOSE. If you force the world's best talent to play for the other side, America will LOSE. End of story.
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @MarioNawfal No, we need more like double that number yesterday! The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low. Think of this like a pro sports team: if you want your TEAM to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever
Andrew Torba / @basedtorba: This “tech labor shortage” is total nonsense. They think you're stupid. If you're a White male engineer in this country and you're unemployed right now you can't even get an interview because many of the hiring managers at top tech firms are Indian and only hire their own.
Blake Masters / @bgmasters: End H-1B and keep the O-1 visa. We want Einstein and Von Neumann to come here, not armies of foreign “tech workers”
Matt Levine / @matt_levine_1: This clash between the MAGA-right and the Tech-right over skilled immigration is just an appetizer, btw The main course is going to be when the MAGA-right discovers that most of the Tech-right leadership are married homosexual men
James Surowiecki / @jamessurowiecki: This is exactly like saying, “There are over 330 million Americans. Surely there must be enough great basketball players among them to build the best team. Why would you bring foreigners like Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic and Giannis and Wemby here to play for American teams?” [image]
Aaron Levie / @levie: This high skilled immigration debate is wild because you have a lot of people who don't build things commenting on the type of talent it takes to build things.
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: Laura Loomer, a woman whose sole talent seems to be publicly humiliating herself over and over and over, is lecturing machine learning engineers about what it takes to build software. What a joke
Balaji / @balajis: Consider two photos. The first is full of native-born Americans. These are the NYT Democrats who pushed for uncontrolled inflation, child castration, limitless taxation, illegal immigration, gun confiscation, and subway immolation. They also censored Republicans on social [image]
Joe Lonsdale / @jtlonsdale: My friend Sriram is America First. For USA to have the highest standard of living, generous govt services, and strongest military, we need to recruit the best and brightest and build the best companies. I'm against more low-end H1B immigrants; but let's win at the talent game.
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: America for the Americans. Everyone else, GTFO.
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Bluesky: @michaelblurry. X: @waddles_eth, @sinisgreat, @heyalexfriedman, @sullyfromdeets, @anothercohen, @blader, @blader, @tchankinson, and @blader
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@waddles_eth: Hi @blader, I'm the person who sent you 50% of $MIRA earlier today. When I saw the story about Mira and her illness, I thought it would be good to buy and send supply to you with the hopes of getting the SOL community behind a good cause on Christmas. I'm really glad that it
SinSin / @sinisgreat: Hi @blader My $35,000 that I purchased of $MIRA is now $2,000 after 10 minutes of buying. I wanted to donate to a good cause but you took my life savings. I was so excited to donate to funding a research for a rare disease that only your daughter has that I mortgaged my home [image]
Alex Friedman / @heyalexfriedman: THE INTERNET IS SO AWESOME😭 Yesterday Siqi posted about his daughter who was diagnosed with a rare brain tumor in September... He created a GoFundMe that goes to Dr. Todd Hankinson at the U of Colorado, who runs the only lab in the world focusing on this tumor. The gfm is at [image]
@sullyfromdeets: The story around $MIRA is beautiful - @blader's daughter has severe brain cancer - Solana degens asked him for his wallet address; he tweets it - degens deploy a coin dedicated to his daughter and send him 40% of the supply to raise awareness - $MIRA is now at 45mil mcap and [image]
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Siqi Chen / @blader: there is no official telegram chat, there is no airdrop, there is no claim. and do not buy $MIRA if you don't expect it to go to zero eventually. if you are buying you are donating to support rare disease research. and i am grateful if you do.
Siqi Chen / @blader: going to take the family out for christmas dinner hope this is worth at least $1.80 when i get back [image]
Todd Hankinson / @tchankinson: I want to express profound gratitude for the generosity of folks supporting Mira and the craniopharyngioma community. What may seem like a small effort can have an unprecedented positive impact for our patients and their families through improved research! Thank you! Thank you!! [video]
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Bluesky: @digthatdata. X: @karpathy, @deepseek_ai, @tunguz, @emostaque, @amasad, @jbohnslav, @drjimfan, @charlesrollet1, @dnystedt, @eladgil, @lmsysorg, @richardsocher, @kimmonismus, @arankomatsuzaki, @amasad, @abhishekn, @emollick, @nrehiew_, @nrehiew_, @hosseeb, @kimmonismus, @theblackauroras, @nearcyan, @garybasin, @seunghyunseo7, @menhguin, @balajis, @rasbt, @casper_hansen_, @scaling01, @casper_hansen_, @teknium1, @terryyuezhuo, @reach_vb, @tensor_fusion, @goodside, @teortaxestex, @balajis, @alexocheema, @shravvmehtaa, @antimatter15, @wordgrammer, @gallabytes, @simeon_cps, @vincentweisser, @reach_vb, @jiayq, @vin_sachi, @hsu_steve, @tom_doerr, @saranormous, @deanwball, @scaling01, @yigitkonur, @jsevillamol, @nikunj, @openrouterai, @scaling01, @tom_doerr, @dtrinh, @anjneymidha, @jacobrintamaki, @artificialguybr, @casper_hansen_, @eturner303, @lm_zheng, @xlr8harder, @nrehiew_, @test_tm7873, @andrewcurran_, @deedydas, @amasad, @alexandr_wang, @tydsh, @itspaulai, and @tim_dettmers
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Anton Shilov / Tom's Hardware: Chinese AI company says breakthroughs enabled creating a leading-edge AI model with 11X less compute — DeepSeek's optimizations could highlight limits of US sanctions
Supreeth Koundinya / Analytics India Magazine: U.S' AI Hardware Restrictions on China Have Backfired
Markus Kasanmascheff / WinBuzzer: DeepSeek V3: New Open AI Model Surpasses Rivals and Challenges GPT-4o
Stephen E. Arnold / Beyond Search: Debbie Downer Says, No AI Payoff Until 2026
Ben Jiang / South China Morning Post: Chinese start-up DeepSeek launches AI model that outperforms Meta, OpenAI products
Pradeep Viswanathan / Neowin: DeepSeek-V3 sets new standard for open-source language models
Bluesky:
X:
Andrej Karpathy / @karpathy: DeepSeek (Chinese AI co) making it look easy today with an open weights release of a frontier-grade LLM trained on a joke of a budget (2048 GPUs for 2 months, $6M). For reference, this level of capability is supposed to require clusters of closer to 16K GPUs, the ones being brought up today are more around 100K GPUs. E.g. Llama 3 405B used 30.8M GPU-hours, while DeepSeek-V3 looks to be a stronger model at only 2.8M GPU-hours (~11X less compute)...
@deepseek_ai: 🚀 Introducing DeepSeek-V3! Biggest leap forward yet: ⚡ 60 tokens/second (3x faster than V2!) 💪 Enhanced capabilities 🛠 API compatibility intact 🌍 Fully open-source models & papers 🐋 1/n [image]
Bojan Tunguz / @tunguz: All the export bans on high end semiconductors might have actually been counterproductive in the “worst” way imaginable. They seem to have forced Chinese researchers to be far more ingenious and resource efficient than they might have otherwise been. It also seems to confirm my
Emad / @emostaque: To run DeepSeek v3 24/7 at 60 tokens per second (5x human reading speed) is $2 a day Latte ☕️ or AI 🤖 anon?
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Biden's Chips Act constrained the performance of chips exported to China, so the Chinese innovated a way to train large models for cheap. Regulators never consider second order effects.
Jim Bohnslav / @jbohnslav: What would the deepseek team accomplish with a month or two on xAI's H100 cluster?
@drjimfan: Resource constraints are a beautiful thing. Survival instinct in a cut-throat AI competitive land is a prime drive for breakthroughs. I've been following DeepSeek for a long time. They had one of the best open coding models last year. Superior OSS models put huge pressure on
Charles Rollet / @charlesrollet1: DeepSeek doesn't just pretend the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened. It also ‘firmly supports’ imprisoning prominent Uyghur dissidents for life. “Ilham Tohti is a person of significant notoriety in China... We firmly support the government's actions” [image]
Dan Nystedt / @dnystedt: @tunguz Good question. CCP (Communist) propaganda always seeks to appear strong, no matter how weak. So are Deepseek's claims true? Is the AI robust? It could be all lies. But if not, that's bad news. https://x.com/...
Elad Gil / @eladgil: Good evidence that a lot of efficiency being left on the table in US labs with massively scaled clusters
@lmsysorg: The best open-source LLM, DeepSeek V3, has just been released! SGLang v0.4.1 is the officially recommended inference solution for it. The SGLang and DeepSeek teams worked together to support DeepSeek V3 FP8 on NVIDIA and AMD GPUs from day one. SGLang has supported MLA and DP
Richard Socher / @richardsocher: The race to lower LLM token prices continues with this impressive model trained on a much smaller budget. The higher the data quality, the lower the compute cost to train.
@kimmonismus: Price-eval-ratio is next level with DeepSeek v3 One should not underestimate the importance of a good price for the LLMs so that they are really available to everyone and so that the models are widely accepted. [image]
Aran Komatsuzaki / @arankomatsuzaki: Deepseek-V3-Base was just opensourced! - 685B MoE w/ 256 experts topk=8 with sigmoid routing - Outperforms Sonnet 3.5 on Aider benchmark https://huggingface.co/... [image]
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Summary of how DeepSeek V3 was so efficient at training a frontier-level model according to Perplexity: — DeepSeek-V3 was able to train their large 671B parameter model with a relatively low compute budget of 2.788M H800 GPU hours through several key innovations and
Abhishek Nagaraj / @abhishekn: we cover this in our paper on competition in generative AI ( https://www.nber.org/...) our key prediction was that moats cannot rely on “secret sauce” but must instead be predicated on complementary assets (compute, network effects ...)
Ethan Mollick / @emollick: Unless things change dramatically, or there is some special sauce that is required & which the labs keep secret, frontier AI capabilities are likely to be available through open models (with the implication that no guardrails will hold in open models) all the way to possible AGI
@nrehiew_: Arch wise they differ significantly from meta which just used a single massive dense transformer For oss Mixture of Experts, mixtral was the first (i think) and DeepSeek popularised it. Multi-Head Latent attention (MLA) comes from their Deepseek v2 paper which basically makes [image]
@nrehiew_: This is the image that has been going around so you probably know how nuts this is but some added context is that Llama 3 405B was trained on 16K H100 https://x.com/... [image]
Haseeb / @hosseeb: Wow. Insanely good coding model, fully open source with only 37B active parameters. Beats Claude and GPT-4o on most benchmarks. China + open source is catching up... 2025 will be a crazy year.
@kimmonismus: DeepSeek-V3! 60 tokens/second (3x faster than V2!) API compatibility intact Fully open-source models & papers 671B MoE parameters 37B activated parameters Trained on 14.8T high-quality tokens Beats Llama 3.1 405b on almost every benchmark [image]
@theblackauroras: It's not outperforming just open source models. It's o1 level and outperforms Claude.
Seunghyun Seo / @seunghyunseo7: A quick summary of deepseek-v3 model (there may be wrong or missing details as this is based on a quick skim) tons of respect to their engineering team... [image]
Minh Nhat Nguyen / @menhguin: at some point unis should just have deepseek technical papers as readings for ML/CS. it's hard NOT to gain alpha from that, let alone something so up-to-date and relevant to the frontier.
Balaji / @balajis: In other words: the Chinese Deepseek paper references GPT-4o, which was in fact led by an Indian immigrant to the US. Many valid policy decisions one can make, but be real about the tradeoffs. 96% of the world is non-American and there is real talent out there. Original post:
Sebastian Raschka / @rasbt: An updated back-of-the-envelope calculation of LLM pretraining costs based on the just-released DeepSeek-v3 report. And that doesn't even account for hyperparameter tuning, failed runs, or personnel costs. It really makes me appreciate the value of openly shared model weights! [image]
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: I'm DeepSeek-pilled now. Boggles my mind that Huggingface has not provided support for any DeepSeek version yet! [image]
@scaling01: META could have trained DeepSeek-V3 at least 15 times using the compute budget of the Llama 3 model family ( 39.3 million H100 hours ) Meanwhile DeepSeek only spent 2.6 million H800 hours (a handicapped / worse H100) for a much better model [image]
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: Feels like Mistral could have dropped a model just as good as DeepSeek V3 but chose to develop products for revenue instead of focusing on research
Terry Yue Zhuo / @terryyuezhuo: Big congrats to @deepseek_ai! The V3 Chat model now ranks 1st on BigCodeBench-Hard. Complete — 40.5% Instruct — 28.4% Average — 34.5% Gemini-Exp-1206 Average — 34.1% o1-2024-12-17 (reasoning=medium) Average — 32.8% More results can be found at https://huggingface.co/... [image]
@reach_vb: LiveBench reported by r/LocalLlama - DeepSeek v3 is the BEST open weight LLM AND SECOND BEST non-reasoning LLM after ‘gemini-exp-1206’ 🔥 [image]
Milton / @tensor_fusion: Peak engineering efficiency from the Whale. Napkin math: > DeepSeek-V3: 2048 H800s / 180K GPU-hours per trillion tokens > Llama 3: 16000 H100s for 54 days so ~1.3M GPU-hours per trillion tokens ~7.5x raw GPU efficiency in DeepSeek's favor. “and now we mog them”. [image]
Riley Goodside / @goodside: This is such a vibes-based eval, but the first prompt I give any new LLM is “Which version is this?” and DeepSeek-V3 nailed it See below for how Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT, and Grok fare on the same — TLDR: it's all over the map [image]
@teortaxestex: > $5.5M for Sonnet tier it's unsurprising that they're proud of it, but it sure feels like they're rubbing it in. «$100M runs, huh? 30.84M H100-hours on 405B, yeah? Half-witted Western hacks, your silicon is wasted on you, your thoughts wouldn't reduce loss of your own models» [image]
Balaji / @balajis: China's Deepseek claims their new open source model was trained for just $5.6M, and that it's on par with GPT 4o and Claude 3.5 Sonnet. If true that's a >10X cost reduction.
Alex Cheema / @alexocheema: I will run Deepseek-V3-Base 685B on M4 Mac Minis or die trying. 685B MoE with 256 experts — perfect for Apple Silicon since they have a lot of GPU memory and only a small subset of params are active at once. Outperforms SOTA closed-source models on benchmarks including Aider. [image]
Shrav Mehta / @shravvmehtaa: Let's keep debating visas while China eats our lunch 🤡 China's leading LLM lab just dropped DeepSeek-V3. It's on par with GPT-4o and Sonnet 3.5 and cost < $10m to train.
@wordgrammer: DeepSeek's new model seems to have proven this For the majority of startups. You cannot build a better datacenter than Microsoft. You cannot fundraise more than Sam or Elon. You cannot get more data than Google. But you actually can write 10x better code than any of them
@gallabytes: whale bros have the mandate of heaven, truly. xAI should just run the DeepSeek code on their cluster on the biggest dataset they can cobble together and release the best omni-model the world has ever seen. don't bother post-training it, just make the best base model and release
Siméon / @simeon_cps: It's noteworthy that DeepSeek is the first competitive lab which is not created by former GoogleBrain/GDMs or OpenAI (and derivatives) staff.
Vincent Weisser / @vincentweisser: Deepseek completely mogging the closed ai labs. Creating a state of the art model for $5.6m.
@reach_vb: The license allows commercial usage *without* an revenue caps, only asks one to respect the Use Policy! This makes DeepSeek V3 even more liberal than Llama 3x series 🔥 [image]
Yangqing Jia / @jiayq: In 2019 I had a chat with the DeepSeek team, in the hope of selling them an AI cloud solution. I was trying to convince them a few things: - you don't need complicated cloud virtualization, you just need containers and an efficient scheduler. - you will need really fast,
Vin Sachidananda / @vin_sachi: Interesting point on training costs/compute efficiency: Deepseek trained on $5.5M w sparse (MoE) architecture - only 38B active params Cheaper than llama 3.1 (dense) w better performance From Jeff Dean's NeurIPS talk, Gemini taking similar approach Maybe end of dense models
Steve Hsu / @hsu_steve: DeepSeek V3 is out. Big improvements. This model is fast, inexpensive to run, and seems to beat Claude, 4o etc. on a broad set of benchmarks. Perhaps most importantly V3 is still open source! Keep in mind DS is a hedge fund whose founder (educated in AI at Zhejiang University)
Tom Dörr / @tom_doerr: Deepseek V3 is amazing. It changed exactly what I wanted, thought it would take a lot more prompting to explain why I want to generate the answer first. Didn't even need to explain that it needs to be a separate signature [image]
@saranormous: I don't think the US chip export controls are having their intended effect. Chinese model DeepSeek v3 very strong, and trained with OOM less money: “DeepSeek-V3 requires only 2.788M H800 GPU hours for its full training” (h800 is h100 with lower interchip bandwidth) [image]
Dean W. Ball / @deanwball: The Chinese AGI lab DeepSeek is reporting an insanely low training cost of only $5.5 million for their new v3 model, which seems to match Claude 3.5 sonnet performance. DeepSeek also has a credible “o1-like” model. Again I will emphasize: if your policy solutions are [image]
@scaling01: Some notes on the DeepSeek-V3 Technical Report :) The most insane thing to me: The whole training only cost $5.576 million or ~55 days on a 2048xH800 cluster. This is TINY compared to the Llama, GPT or Claude training runs. - 671B MoE with 37B activate params - DeepSeek MoE [image]
@yigitkonur: Bored during the holidays? For AI enthusiasts, it's the perfect time to catch up on the latest buzz 🤖 China's answer to OpenAI, Deepseek, just released their new v3 model, beating GPT-4o in most benchmarks It's now live on @ThinkbuddyAI for all curious minds 👇
Jaime Sevilla / @jsevillamol: DeepSeek-V3 is impressively efficient. It has 37B active params and was pre-trained on 14.8T tokens, amounting to 6 x 37B x 14.8T = 3e24 FLOP. That's 10x less compute than llama 3.1 430B, yet better benchmark performance. [image]
Nikunj Kothari / @nikunj: Feels like a Christmas miracle.. @deepseek_ai v3 - frontier OS model from China without throwing a LOT of compute at the problem “2.664M H800 GPU hours, we complete the pre-training of DeepSeek-V3 on 14.8T tokens, producing the currently strongest open-source base model.” [image]
@openrouterai: Deepseek has tripled in usage on OpenRouter since the v3 launch yesterday. Try it yourself, w/o subscription, including web search: [video]
@scaling01: the real story here is that Grok-3 will use 100x the compute and just barely beat DeepSeek-V3 LMAO
Tom Dörr / @tom_doerr: It's creepy how well Deepseek V3 understands what's going on without me having to explain anything. It suddenly feels like there's a ghost in the machine [image]
Danny Trinh / @dtrinh: We're debating global skilled labor with a racist mob of locally unskilled laborers — meanwhile China put out Deepseek V3 with chewing gum and some paper clips. The US must win the global talent war and policies that get in the way only help our competition.
Anjney Midha / @anjneymidha: Deepseek v3 seems to be a genuinely good model. China has caught up. Open source has caught up. The frontier costs abt $6M. I expect the model to crush it on @OpenRouterAI over the next few days. Lots of priors should be updated.
Jacob Rintamaki / @jacobrintamaki: I think in many ways deepseek-v3 is a bigger update than o3 for “I didn't think that was possible yet.” There's so many great techniques they used as well; going to read their paper at least 4 times today. [image]
@artificialguybr: How crazy is it to think that Deepseek is offering Deepseek V3 for 0.28/1M output and that this model is theoretically the second best non-reasoning model (second only to Gemini 1206) in the benchmarks. [image]
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: Deepseek just mogged all of us with one release. Where is Llama 4? Will it even be competitive?
Elliot Turner / @eturner303: DeepSeek V3 was post-trained on synthetic CoT data generated by their R1 reasoning model. Here's some interesting tidbits on their data pipeline from the DSV3 paper [image]
Lianmin Zheng / @lm_zheng: Highly respected! It is so impressive given the results and the very limited resources they have compared to other big labs. “DeepSeek-V3 is trained on a cluster equipped with 2048 NVIDIA H800 GPUs.”
@xlr8harder: While operating under substantial hardware limitations in China, DeepSeek continues to execute flawlessly and remain consistently generous, sharing their crown jewels with the world. Incredible.
@nrehiew_: How to train a 670B parameter model. Let's talk about the DeepSeek v3 report + some comparisons with what Meta did with Llama 405B [image]
Deedy / @deedydas: The ex-quants in China dropped the best open-source LLM in the world: DeepSeek V3! — 671B params, 37B active MoE — On par with 3.5 Sonnet and 4o — $0.27/Mtok input, $1.1/Mtok output — 60tok/s — 128k context — Trained with just $5.5M on 14.8T tok! 53-page technical paper is GOLD [image]
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Craziest thing is it took only $5.5m to train. US labs spend one — maybe two — order of magnitude more for frontier models.
Alexandr Wang / @alexandr_wang: It is quite fitting that DeepSeek, China's leading LLM lab, releases its latest model V3 on Christmas. - on-par with GPT-4o & Claude 3.5 Sonnet - trained w/10x less compute The bitter lesson of Chinese tech: they work while America rests, and catch up cheaper, faster & stronger [image]
Yuandong Tian / @tydsh: FP8 pre-training, MoE, strong performance with very limited budget, Distill from CoT for bootstrapping ... wow, this is great work 👏👏 👍👍
Paul Couvert / @itspaulai: Wait, so we now have a 100% open source model that's better than GPT-4o?! DeepSeek v3 is even superior to Claude Sonnet 3.5 for code according to multiple benchmarks. Already available for free to everyone 🧵 [image]
Tim Dettmers / @tim_dettmers: Reading the report, this is such clean engineering under resource constraints. The DeepSeek team directly engineered solutions to known problems under hardware constraints. All of this looks so elegant — no fancy “academic” solutions, just pure, solid engineering. Respect 👏
| Tom Dotan / Wall Street Journal: |
| Ivan Mehta / TechCrunch: |
More:
Steve Dent / Engadget: Bluesky launches a Trending Topics feature in search
Sara Shriber / CivicScience: Infographic: Bluesky vs. Threads
Barbara Krasnoff / The Verge: Bluesky adds Trending topics to its arsenal
Bluesky:
@moviessilently: I'm not mad about this, if I am honest. I did miss the trending topics on Twitter because it gives you an idea of the happenings without them obnoxiously hijacking your feed [image]
Paul Frazee / @pfrazee.com: Some more info about the Trending beta — If you disable it, you can restore it in your settings — We do moderate it — If it somehow goes haywire we'll press a big red button to turn it off
John / @johnbull.social: Amazing, a new feature is rolled out and everyone gets it... AND people have the option to turn it off?! amazing concept. [embedded post]
@bsky.app: Merry Christmas from us to you 🎄🎁💙 We launched Trending Topics today, and you can find it by tapping the search icon on the bottom bar of the app or the right sidebar on desktop. [image]
@bsky.app: Details about Trending: — 🎅 This is v1 and we will be iterating with your feedback — 🧑🎄 You can disable it with the X button or in Settings — 🎄 Your mute words transfer to Trending! — 🎁 English only for now, while we test it [image]
Gillian Branstetter / @gbbranstetter: People are complaining about Bluesky adding trending topics but right now “prime rib” is trending and when you click on it it's just a parade of succulent and perfectly cooked prime ribs
Paul Frazee / @pfrazee.com: Hey everybody! You may notice Trending start to appear in your app! Here's some quick info: - This is a beta - Search page on mobile, right sidebar on desktop - You can disable it with the X button on the trending section - English only for now, while we test it Merry Christmas!
Samuel / @samuel.bsky.team: trending topics is out for 15 minutes and I'm already trying to figure out how to game it to get Wallace and Gromit trending
Mike Masnick / @mmasnick: Trending topics are here... trending topics are here. Truly a Christmas miracle. [embedded post]