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December 26, 2024, 9:35 PM
Enter Techmeme snapshot date and time:
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| Stephanie Palazzolo / The Information: |
An undisclosed 2023 agreement between Microsoft and OpenAI defines achieving AGI as the point when OpenAI develops AI systems that generate $100B+ in profits — Finally, a verifiable, numbers-based description of artificial general intelligence has arrived!
Bluesky: @righteoushazard, @golikehellmachine.com, @evacide, @frankenmizer, @alondra, @edzitron.com, @goldstein, @paulmainwood, @marypcbuk, @firepile, @meredithmeredith, @dani.cool, @stevenbock.me, @penllawen.favrd.social, @basilevs83, @rtm223.me, @mattsiegel, @thisiselena, @intrinsicmode.com, @daniloc.xyz, @bladesjester, @chaosgreml.in, @magex, @mrhands31, @kbsutt, @eliotkjones, @joshuaerlich, @hypervisible, @idthemike.xyz, @mrmandolino.itch.io, @xxiainxx, @andrewhinton, @caezar.io, and @markriedl. Mastodon: @maxpool@mathstodon.xyz
X: @davidad, @daniel_271828, @mer__edith, @peterwildeford, @kimmonismus, @ai_for_success, @btibor91, @lessin, @parismarx, @steph_palazzolo, @tolgabilge_, @silvermanjacob, @amir, @jjaron, @amir, @amir, and @aaronpholmes. Forums: r/technology
More:
Thomas Maxwell / Gizmodo: Leaked Documents Show OpenAI Has a Very Clear Definition of ‘AGI’
Rani Molla / Sherwood News: Microsoft and OpenAI have agreed on a definition of artificial general intelligence
Matthias Bastian / The Decoder: Anthropic says most tasks don't require complex AI agents
Richard Lawler / The Verge: OpenAI, Microsoft, and the $100 billion AGI question
Bluesky:
@righteoushazard: Arthur C Clark and Stanley Kubrick really had us thinking the AGI problem was gonna be it locking us outside the airlock or something — bsky.app/profile/tech... [embedded post]
@golikehellmachine.com: you almost kind of have to hand it to MSFT here, they figured out how to avoid buying the cow while getting the milk for free
@evacide: “The two companies reportedly signed an agreement last year stating OpenAI has only achieved AGI when it develops AI systems that can generate at least $100 billion in profits.” — “AGI is when I have heaps of money,” is one hell of a position. — techcrunch.com/2024/12/26/m...
Alondra Nelson / @alondra: AGI = Automated Gross Income [embedded post]
Ed Zitron / @edzitron.com: How the hell does something's profitability connect to whether it's AGI? Also how about an AI system that generates profits of any kind lol — www.theinformation.com/articles/ mic... [embedded post]
@paulmainwood: Wonder what other philosophical problems could be resolved by setting a market cap number. [embedded post]
Mary Branscombe / @marypcbuk: if it's better than most people at making money may *not* be the definition we want for AGI but I wonder if this was a riposte to the 'we'll know it when we see it and we get to decide' proposal from OpenAI [embedded post]
Robin Z / @firepile: A Christmas Carol but it's the ghosts of Alan Turing, Ada Lovelace, and Joseph Weizenbaum haunting the absolute fuck out of Sam Altman. Just following him around and heckling him 24/7. [embedded post]
Meredith Whittaker / @meredithmeredith: Complete knowledge of the full majesty of universal creation in all its divine facets is when I own an island. [embedded post]
Steven Bock / @stevenbock.me: What was the first time? I haven't been keeping up with the AGI definitions - too busy building stuff.
Richard Gaywood / @penllawen.favrd.social: that's not how scientific breakthroughs work, and it's not even close [embedded post]
Vasili Gulevich / @basilevs83: It is a much better definition than many. People constantly argue about intelligence and consciousness. Can't argue about cash.
Richard Meredith / @rtm223.me: Extremely funny that they — A) have so little idea what they are making that they have to define AGI by profitability — B) think OpenAI will generate $100B in profit [embedded post]
Elena Perez / @thisiselena: new kind of black hole dropped [embedded post]
Byron Galbraith / @intrinsicmode.com: Agreed-upon Gross Income [embedded post]
Danilo / @daniloc.xyz: Hahahahahaha — Defining “AGI” in terms of scale of margin is a perfect way to capture the lack of imagination that pervades today's power — We have only one true god, and he's playing the smallest game imaginable [embedded post]
James Hollingshead / @bladesjester: What the actual eff? “AGI” is an LLM that's profitable? — And the sad thing is that people who don't know better (which is most people. Honestly even a lot of people in tech) and will claim that they're right. [embedded post]
Bryan Guffey / @chaosgreml.in: I mean, at least we now know we don't have to take their definition even the least bit seriously. — “OpenAI declares AGI” — “Yeah, yeah, you just hit a revenue target. This thing still chokes on my prompts at least once a day.” [embedded post]
Mr. Hands / @mrhands31: Sentience is when a corporation paperclip maximizes its way to Love [embedded post]
@kbsutt: What a useless definition! — Words mean things! — Also, this doesn't really explain why Altman has more recently sought to redefine AGI to the point of meaninglessness. If their contract defines it in terms of revenue, then he can't just get out of it by waving his hands and gesturing “Voila, AGI!” [embedded post]
Joshua Erlich / @joshuaerlich: defining general intelligence by its profitability is too on the nose to joke about. i've got nothing left. [embedded post]
@hypervisible: Rubes out here trying to pin down a definition when the companies agree that true AGI is when they generate earth shattering profits.
@idthemike.xyz: Jokes aside, this is basically the 2 most advanced AI players in the market admitting that AGI ain't ever happening [embedded post]
Mando / @mrmandolino.itch.io: two things on this — one: the utter grotesquery of first redefining what “artificial intelligence” is and then arbitrarily say “actually the real artificial intelligence is when product makes this much money” — two: they're never gonna get there, and while they try, Microsoft gets everything they make [embedded post]
Andrew Hinton / @andrewhinton: Seems kinda on the nose that billionaires would use “makes enough billions” as their metric for the point where “AI” becomes generally “intelligent” [embedded post]
@caezar.io: That's the second time Sam Altman admitted that OpenAI cannot see any path to AGI. With one more we should then start to see a scale adjustment as they try to produce marginal revenue per transaction. — Short of revolution, it sure sounds like the pipe dream is in for an adjustification.
Mark Riedl / @markriedl: Words don't mean anything anymore [embedded post]
Mastodon:
@maxpool@mathstodon.xyz: Microsoft and OpenAI have contractual definition of AGI. — https://techcrunch.com/... The reason the need for definition is that Microsoft loses access to OpenAI's technology when the startup reaches AGI. — “The two companies reportedly signed an agreement last year stating OpenAI has only achieved AGI when it develops AI systems that can generate at least $100 billion in profits.” …
X:
@davidad: In a slow takeoff timeline, many things that were often synonymous from a speculative distance come apart. For example, what many people really meant by AGI was “transformative AI,” e.g. an AI agent that makes more total profit than Airbus, Citigroup, and General Motors combined.
Daniel Eth / @daniel_271828: Thesis: AGI stands for “artificial general intelligence” Antithesis: AGI stands for “adjusted gross income” Synthesis:
Meredith Whittaker / @mer__edith: Complete knowledge of the full majesty of universal creation in all its divine facets is when I own an island.
Peter Wildeford / @peterwildeford: Interesting - According to The Information, OpenAI and Microsoft have formally defined AGI as reaching $100 billion in profits. It's implied that OpenAI doesn't think they'll reach this milestone until 2030 or later.
@kimmonismus: As @theinformation writes, OpenAI has now developed a new definition for AGI. While the definition otherwise focuses primarily on technical details, OpenAI now wants to make it revenue-based. In short: AGI = 100b in revenue. Ultimately, it also fits with Level 5 AGI that an AI [image]
AshutoshShrivastava / @ai_for_success: Don't mess with Satya: “AGI will be achieved only when OpenAI develops systems capable of generating maximum total profits, and that number is close to $100 billion.” While everyone, including OpenAI employees, was feeling the AGI vibes after the o3 announcement, Microsoft made [image]
Tibor Blaho / @btibor91: The Information reports that Microsoft and OpenAI are negotiating their partnership terms as OpenAI CEO Sam Altman wants to convert the company into a for-profit corporation, with last year's agreement between the companies defining AGI as systems with ability to generate about [image]
@lessin: Good reporting and pretty hilarious from @theinformation / openai-microsoft deal defines AGI as generating “100b in profits” ... very hitchhikers guide to the galaxy-esque definition. [image]
Paris Marx / @parismarx: If AGI is simply an AI system that generates $100 billion in profit, it might be farther away than even the critics believed. https://gizmodo.com/...
Stephanie Palazzolo / @steph_palazzolo: Microsoft and OpenAI have put a price tag on AGI: $100B in profits. For more, check out this morning's AI Agenda: https://www.theinformation.com/ ...
Tolga Bilge / @tolgabilge_: New definition of AGI just dropped: it's after Microsoft and other investors manage to get $100B profit from OpenAI models
Jacob Silverman / @silvermanjacob: So AGI is a pie in the sky KPI, not a discrete innovation or achievement
Amir Efrati / @amir: there is still some ambiguity in the contract but it's not as hazy as AGI is “systems that outperform people at most economically valuable work,” which is how OpenAI's website defines it.
Jacob Aron / @jjaron: Genuinely hilarious definition. Is Aramco AGI?
Amir Efrati / @amir: You didn't really think Microsoft—a $3T company with a shrewd CEO—would let OpenAI declare AGI based on a subjective, hazy definition, did you? LINK: [image]
Amir Efrati / @amir: New: The AGI debate can come to an end. To OpenAI and Microsoft, AGI means OpenAI getting to a profit level almost no company has achieved before... [image]
Aaron Holmes / @aaronpholmes: OpenAI can't just declare AGI whenever it wants and be free of Microsoft. The companies actually have a contractual definition of AGI: a system that can generate $100 billion in profits. Great reporting from @amir and @steph_palazzolo: https://www.theinformation.com/ ...
Forums:
| The Information: |
Source: Microsoft and OpenAI wrangle over Microsoft's stake in the for-profit entity, use of OpenAI's IP, continued collection of 20% of OpenAI's revenue, more — OpenAI CEO Sam Altman wants to convert the artificial intelligence developer, which is governed by a nonprofit, into a for-profit corporation.More:
X:
Daniel Newman / @danielnewmanuv: OpenAI and Microsoft appear to be in discussions of a restructured partnership. As far as I'm concerned, this has been one of the worst kept secrets in the industry. The friction has been obvious. Microsoft also showed some concerned with the drama and churn at OpenAI and
Jez / @jezcorden: I haven't seen a single report that suggests OpenAI and Microsoft actually enjoy their partnership lol. https://www.windowscentral.com/ ...
Chetan Puttagunta / @chetanp: New details here about the Microsoft/ Open AI partnership are fascinating. The various scenarios of how this partnership plays out will ripple through the ecosystem. Most interestingly: will Open AI models be available on AWS? Will Microsoft invest billions in other models?
Forums:
| Noah Smith / Noahpinion: |
How H-1B workers from India and other countries help the US remain dominant in tech, as some on the new “Tech Right” discover MAGA's racial-nationalist bigotry — This isn't ambiguous. — The new MAGA coalition has officially had its first internal debate, and it's over H-1b visas.
Bluesky: @alternatebuild.dev, @thetnholler, @walterolson, @romitmehta.com, @gwensnyder, @bucketlister88, @jdportes, and @anildash.com
X: @elonmusk, @mattyglesias, @vivekgramaswamy, @nic__carter, @nic__carter, @devahaz, @paulg, @lauraloomer, @nasescobar316, @davidsacks, @elonmusk, @alecstapp, @bennpeifert, @alltheinternets, @grantslatton, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @yacinemtb, @raghavendrapv, @luke_metro, @fischerking64, @bgmasters, @ritchietorres, @parikpatelcfa, @nkulw, @mrinconcruz, @mattyglesias, @rakeshsfnyc, @x_rahulraj, @basedbeffjezos, @elonmusk, @davidsacks, @noahpinion, @noahpinion, @baxate_carter, @armanddoma, @grimezsz, @businessbarista, @noahpinion, @politicalmath, @ronfilipkowski, @garrytan, @armanddoma, @financeguy725, @firstadopter, @mattyglesias, @parikpatelcfa, @growing_daniel, @appyg99, @alecstapp, @davidmarcus, @richardhanania, @nickyfrank30, @vivekgramaswamy, @sturgeons_law, @harmlessyarddog, @levie, @ichthys30, @teroterotero, @mattyglesias, @dmitry140, @nikkihaley, @theworthyhouse, @armanddoma, @annagorisch, @catehall, @davidu, @davidsacks, @elonmusk, @jeremykauffman, @jackposobiec, @devahaz, @sarthakgh, @armanddoma, @steinkobbe, @teroterotero, @austen, @growing_daniel, @kurtschlichter, @mattyglesias, @krishnanrohit, @alecstapp, @aravsrinivas, @noahpinion, @paulg, @sarthakgh, @kiarichards_, @0xkarmatic, @davidsacks, @theworthyhouse, @stillgray, @lauraloomer, @wolfejosh, @firstadopter, @basedtorba, @parikpatelcfa, @teroterotero, @jtlonsdale, @rsanti97, @jamessurowiecki, @parikpatelcfa, @micah_erfan, @sevaut, @theworthyhouse, @jlippincott_, @pitdesi, @trueanonpod, @lionel_trolling, @mattyglesias, @boonafterboon, @hodgetwins, @pitdesi, @davidsacks, @tracewoodgrains, @teroterotero, @quantian1, @mattyglesias, @buccocapital, @parikpatelcfa, @balajis, @cloudwatch199, @jlippincott_, @suhail, @gavinwax, @rmsherman, @matt_levine_1, @thestalwart, @mcuban, @eigenrobot, @stillgray, @noahpinion, @armanddoma, @scottbelsky, @rubirosarevival, @davidsacks, @byyourlogic, @therabbithole84, @realgeorgehotz, @nasescobar316, @josephpolitano, @armanddoma, @plzbepatient, @richardhanania, @mayankseksaria, @themagahulk, @cremieuxrecueil, @elonmusk, @jackposobiec, @levie, @mcuban, @dvassallo, @graduatedben, @lokijulianus, @eyeslasho, @levie, @appyg99, @parikpatelcfa, @rishijoesanu, @bgurley, @teroterotero, @noahpinion, @nobleqali, @mattyglesias, @lauraloomer, @armanddoma, @andrewyng, @paulg, @alecstapp, @yacinemtb, @luke_metro, @rokhanna, @josephpolitano, @matt_levine_1, @grantslatton, @noahpinion, @presentwitness_, @johncardillo, @justalexoki, @auronmacintyre, @copyconstruct, @tanknothink, @kelewarg, @tunguz, and @krishnanrohit
Forums: r/neoliberal, r/thedavidpakmanshow, and r/ProfessorFinance
More:
Israpundit: Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy and the Silicon Valley Tech Millionaire Group Continue Lambasting Americans While Advocating for Expanded Foreign Worker Visas
Billal Rahman / Newsweek: Laura Loomer Faces Backlash for Comments About Indians Amid H-1B Visa Debate
Bluesky:
@alternatebuild.dev: imo “discover” here could be swapped for “finally forced to reckon with” — boy the related discourse on “the other site” makes me cynical, but we're going to remain optimistic! we can learn!
@thetnholler: In-fighting : “The new MAGA coalition has officially had its first internal debate - over H-1b visas. It started when Trump appointed Sriram Krishnan...” — Elon & the tech bros shocked to realize they're in coalition with those who hate all immigrants.
Walter Olson / @walterolson: TIL: the nativist lobby group that calls itself “US Tech Workers” doesn't actually represent any organized body of actual U.S. tech workers, and Its founder doesn't “appear to have ever done the type of job that an H-1b worker might be hired to do.” [embedded post]
Romit Mehta / @romitmehta.com: Had a pretty pleasant Christmas Day watching NBA and NFL and in the process completely missed the anti-Indian campaign started by the MAGA right, specifically targeting Sriram and expanding it to all Indians and H-1B workers. — Can't say I did not see this coming, tbh. — x.com/LauraLoomer/...
@gwensnyder: The world's richest man (from South Africa) and a Nazi propagandist from Malaysia spent their Christmas night complaining that the xenophobic base they helped manufacture to elect a nativist needs to understand that we still need to allow immigration for important groups like Nazi space scientists [image]
@bucketlister88: Worked in tech with Indians on H-1B. Few were excellent (10%) remaining 90% were horrible. Their coding standards were sub-par and they'd push anything to production just to say they delivered. Our company experienced a huge shift in morale. The greater # of Indians the worse our culture became.
Jonathan Portes / @jdportes: Ignoring the slightly clickbait title, @noahpinion.blogsky.venki.dev makes an important empirical point here about skilled immigration which is highly relevant to the current UK debate. — [1/n] — www.noahpinion.blog/p/indian- imm...
Anil Dash / @anildash.com: I used to know Sriram a long time ago; had coffee with him and met his wife and he told me he used to read my blog. After he fell in with the Andreessen types and became their pet during the Clubhouse era, I told him it was gonna end like this. We haven't spoken since, but... lie down with dogs. …
X:
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: The “fixed pie” fallacy is at the heart of much wrong-headed economic thinking. There is essentially infinite potential for job and company creation. Think of all the things that didn't exist 20 or 30 years ago!
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Cutting edge thinking: We have Indian-American CEOs at Google and Microsoft because of a Jewish plot to sabotage America.
Vivek Ramaswamy / @vivekgramaswamy: The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn't because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if we're really serious about fixing the problem, we have to confront the TRUTH:
@nic__carter: Trumps rainbow coalition of tech bros and blood and soil nationalists appears to have collapsed 25 days before he takes office
@nic__carter: I do think serious questions need to be asked of the H1B system and how it affects the wages of Americans tech workers, but the right way to open that discussion is not via a xenophobic tirade against one of our best.
Deva Hazarika / @devahaz: There are two types of shocked right wing tech bros right now: 1) self-serving liars who thought they'd see no opposition to enriching their enterprises in any way they saw fit 2) people who don't care or know anything about MAGA or RW politics and just jumped on a bandwagon
Paul Graham / @paulg: I don't think I've ever seen a Twitter dispute that was so one-sided. All the people who understand tech, on both right and left, are on one side, and the other side is just anonymous accounts and political commentators.
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: Deeply disturbing to see the appointment of Sriram Krishnan @sriramk as Senior Policy Advisor for AI at the Office of Science and Technology Policy. It's alarming to see the number of career leftists who are now being appointed to serve in Trump's admin when they share views [image]
David Sacks / @davidsacks: @LauraLoomer @sriramk Point of clarification: Sriram didn't say he wants to remove all caps on green cards. He said he wants to remove *country* caps on green cards. Right now, every country in the world gets allocated the same number of green cards, no matter how many qualified applicants it has. So
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @MarioNawfal No, we need more like double that number yesterday! The number of people who are super talented engineers AND super motivated in the USA is far too low. Think of this like a pro sports team: if you want your TEAM to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: Only 14% of US residents are immigrants. But immigrants are responsible for 36% of aggregate innovation. Two-thirds of this contribution is due to making their native-born collaborators better. [image]
@bennpeifert: Don't think being a model minority will satisfy the racists Don't bring them in as political partners and be surprised racism is their priority Don't stoke racism against blacks, mexicans and middle easterners and be shocked when they come for educated Indians Don't be
Zeb Anderson / @alltheinternets: @nasescobar316 Indian Americans are literally running the most successful (also American) companies in the world. Sundar Pichai (Google), Satya Nadella (Microsoft), Arvind Krishna (IBM), etc. It's what makes America great brother.
Grant Slatton / @grantslatton: The nationalist responses to this are basically “you should hire low-agency uneducated Americans like me and teach me the things Zhang and Pradeep taught themselves on a $20 android phone” What did you get done last week?
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: The fight on the Right over Indian immigration is a reminder of why we used to have this useful term called “racist” that we could use to dismiss people who obviously just want a future of chaos and destruction for America. [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Immigration is our superpower
Raghav V P / @raghavendrapv: How do you not see the economic contributions of the highly-skilled immigrants? Is it that you want to keep this class of contributors oppressed? I hope you see the broader picture that prioritizes highly-skilled immigrants (and not beneficiaries of chain immigration) is an
FischerKing / @fischerking64: Repeat observation, but there is something absurd about importing ‘high-skilled’ foreigners at the same time as the USA has been eliminating advanced programs in public schools that might identify domestic talent - all in the name of DEI. We don't even know how much domestic
Blake Masters / @bgmasters: End H-1B and keep the O-1 visa. We want Einstein and Von Neumann to come here, not armies of foreign “tech workers”
Ritchie Torres / @ritchietorres: The personal attacks on Sriram Krishnan are disgraceful. Sriram is an American Dream success story. He represents what is best about America, and his haters represent what is worst. America should be defined not by color but by creed.
Noah Kulwin / @nkulw: I am a fan of the H-1B visa but I do not support the underpaid immigrants it brings over nor the people they are meant to replace [pelted with trash, canceled permanently]
Manny / @mrinconcruz: Laura makes a good point—removing caps as Sriram suggests would create an application spamming situation. Which by the way is already the case with applications from India in many areas, including student visas. My own take is that Srirams position is unwise. The skilled
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Who could have predicted crude immigration-related attacks coming from the Trump movement? [image]
Rakesh Agrawal / @rakeshsfnyc: I know I'm in a bubble, but I'm glad we're having a serious discussion on high-skilled immigration. It hasn't been purely one-sided; some in tech world are calling for reform of H-1B abuses. 🤞🏾it turns into a real policy discussion versus just as shouting match. I've worked
Rahul Raj / @x_rahulraj: Sriram Krishnan will face backlash in USA because American public don't want talented Indians to fix things for their country Sriram Krishnan will struggle in India because Indian politicians don't want talented Indians to fix things for their country
@basedbeffjezos: Maybe we phrase high-skilled immigration as critical talent acquisition and adversarial skill exfiltration from opponents. The US needs to continue to Project Paperclip all other countries at all times to stay on top. Maintain US tech dominance is paramount to protect freedom.
David Sacks / @davidsacks: It's a different person with the same name. If you knew anything about tech, you might even know he's a VC at a different firm. Have you told the President yet? Maybe it's time to stop with this crusade before you embarrass yourself further.
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: “The racists we just allied with to win an election turning out to be racist” is not a psyop, guys. 😂 [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Amazing community note
@baxate_carter: let me get this straight, you want companies to favor american workers even if they aren't as qualified as their H1-B counterparts purely because the american was born here some might call that an inalienable trait. So the people who are against DEI, want a DEI program to
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: at the end of the day, a lot of nativist sentiment is just “crabs in a bucket” stupidity. as if deporting a bunch of Indians is going to magically spawn an army of Applachian machine learning engineers
@grimezsz: Suddenly concocting anti Indian energy out of nowhere is embarrassing yall. Also, they were clear they planned to do this. My step dad's Indian, I had a fire childhood in a half Indian household. Indian culture jives very well w western culture.
Alex Lieberman / @businessbarista: @levie @AlecStapp the #1 macroeconomic moat on the planet. why we need to continue to make sure the U.S. is a marketable product to the best & brightest
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: In fact, native-born Americans CAN fulfill tech jobs. They don't have a skill deficit. But the number of jobs is NOT FIXED. When we hire more H-1bs and other skilled foreigners, corporations invest more in America, and native-born people get MORE tech jobs and higher wages!
PoIiMath / @politicalmath: I'm looking for a job in the tech industry, which puts me in a weird space with the debate over visas and tech workers On the one hand, I can honestly say that I have never personally worked with an H1B visa holder who I thought was stealing an American job I have worked with
Ron Filipkowski / @ronfilipkowski: BREAKING: MAGA has suddenly realized the Tech Bros are globalists.
Garry Tan / @garrytan: Keep skilled immigration legal [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: foreign students pay way more than American ones do, so if you kicked them out, *fewer* Americans would get a college education because the latter subsidizes the former
Kyle O'Hehir / @financeguy725: I didn't go to a top-tier university I got a front office job on the buyside out of undergrad This is a skill issue/cope
Tae Kim / @firstadopter: Only in America could an immigrant like Jensen Huang—who started by cleaning bathrooms, washing dishes and attending a state school—meet Curtis and Chris at Denny's, get VC funding and cofound the world's most consequential company Nvidia. Immigration is America's superpower.
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: @JTLonsdale What are low-end H1B immigrants?
@parikpatelcfa: If Indian immigrants are so bad for America why did America name a whole state after us [image]
Daniel / @growing_daniel: When I was a little kid I dreamed of someday becoming a Senior White House Policy Advisor on Artificial Intelligence. Then an immigrant stole my job
Apoorva Govind / @appyg99: 4/ if you want to fix the H1B issue, remove lotteries, reject the Indian service agencies from gaming the system, introduce a points system like the rest of the world. Set a high bar for what qualifies as skilled immigration.
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: This is 100% right. We should be doing everything we can to attract top global talent. Let's build a superteam and win forever. [image]
David Marcus / @davidmarcus: This whole cabal against @sriramk is totally out of control. There's no self serving agenda whatsoever here, nor character flaws. We should celebrate people like Sriram who are going to leave so much $ on the table to serve the country. Enough of this nonsense.
Richard Hanania / @richardhanania: Usually, we should stick to ideas and not focus on credentials. But when your entire thing is racism, and you want to take credit for what previous generations have built, you have made it about identity. It becomes fair game to point out how unaccomplished these racists are. [image]
Nicky Frank / @nickyfrank30: Me watching MAGA go after Indian immigrants after Indian-Americans swung to Trump. [image]
Vivek Ramaswamy / @vivekgramaswamy: America-First means we want America to WIN. Playing for second place doesn't cut it.
@sturgeons_law: I'm surprised the tech right is flaunting their open contempt for the populist MAGA types before Trump is even in office.
@harmlessyarddog: A white dude applied to work at X for free, didn't even get a response. There are ethnic mafias inside tech HR, this is an open secret. [image]
Aaron Levie / @levie: This chart shows the net migration levels of inventors to and from countries. America has more inventors coming here than all countries combined. This is our economic secret weapon that has been tuned for hundreds of years. [image]
Sulla / @ichthys30: Really weird to me how every person here says they put in 100 applications and got no call backs and every business owner on X said they put out job openings and got zero applications from natives and just HAVE to hire H1-B. Really makes you think ....
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: OK now I'm getting nervous as a Finnish American LOL... getting kind of Weimary
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Before he became a politician, this was @JDVance's thing — applying the traditional conservative critique of African-American culture to the white working class, and criticizing Trump for cynically exploiting that pathology rather than addressing it.
Dmitry Shevelenko / @dmitry140: I'm an American who is gainfully employed because an Indian immigrant on a visa founded a company in the US. Thx @AravSrinivas for creating 100+ American jobs.
Nikki Haley / @nikkihaley: There is nothing wrong with American workers or American culture. All you have to do is look at the border and see how many want what we have. We should be investing and prioritizing in Americans, not foreign workers.
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: The reason Musk wants more Indians is because he knows that to get to Mars, he needs top talent RIGHT NOW, and he can skim the cream of Indians to do so. Rebuilding American education, on the other hand, will take decades, and require a birth rate reversal, neither of which can
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: Laura Loomer, a woman whose sole talent seems to be publicly humiliating herself over and over and over, is lecturing machine learning engineers about what it takes to build software. What a joke
Anna K. Gorisch / @annagorisch: If I could destroy just one immigration myth, it would be the claim that it's cheaper for employers to hire someone with an H-1B. It is exactly the opposite. Filing fees for one H-1B are about $5k, then there are lawyers. You also have to retain an employee to manage internal
Cate Hall / @catehall: The Discourse about whether it's bad to let cheap H1B labor undercut American workers is incredible because employers ***aren't allowed to pay H1B employees less than their American counterparts*** In practice it is substantially MORE expensive to employ H1Bs
David Ulevitch / @davidu: The funny thing about the Sriram hubbub, which is really a nothing burger except on X, is that he renounced his Indian citizenship to become a US citizen, which is a lot more of a commitment to America than most people make. 🙂🇺🇸💯
David Sacks / @davidsacks: @LauraLoomer @sriramk I agree there's a contradiction. You'll be happy to know that no one on the AI team will be working on immigration policy so their views on green cards are irrelevant. I think we can also agree that before even discussing legal immigration, we should completely seal the border
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @Austen Exactly
Jeremy Kauffman / @jeremykauffman: Everyone sees Indian immigration the way they've experienced it: 1 - High-tech and elite firms see the exceptionally talented with no equivalent American substitute. 2 - The low- and mid-tier tech worker is familiar with Indian department takeovers. 3 - Average Americans have
Deva Hazarika / @devahaz: I don't think “Americans need to turn all their kids into a bunch of super nerds or get replaced by foreigners” is the winning conservative message Vivek seems to believe it is
Sar Haribhakti / @sarthakgh: Try looking up roles played by Indian immigrants in the invention of pentium microprocessor, hotmail, ethernet switching, java, usb, transformer that power the current llm wave, and much more
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: the tactic of course is to spew endless insane racist shit against Indians all day, and then find a random Indian guy who popped off in a crass way, and say this justifies the insane racist shit in the first place [image]
@steinkobbe: Suddenly they have an issue with the fact Vivek got rich from scamming people after he said tech companies should be allowed to hire foreigners [image]
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: He keeps talking... he dimly realizes he is in a lot of trouble with his base, but he keeps digging himself deeper... this is fascinating in a grotesque sort of manner.
Austen Allred / @austen: Look, two things are true: 1. H1B is used to bring in absolutely brilliant engineers, without whom American competitiveness diminishes and the entire US economy is harmed. 2. H1B is poorly implemented and abused like crazy.
Daniel / @growing_daniel: Why do people who don't like immigrants even care about the h1b thing. This is a small number of immigrants and most of them go to a city that you would not step foot in. They're also highly civilized intelligent people. Aren't you mad about Venezuelan gangs
Kurt Schlichter / @kurtschlichter: There's an easy solution to the H1-B “highly skilled” visa issue. Since it's so vital we have foreigners coming in because there are allegedly not enough Americans, companies who want them can pay $50K a year tax on each visa worker they hire. If they are that essential...
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: Winning a Poaster War against the groypers over visas for skilled workers is a lot easier than engaging in the legislative dealmaking needed to enact statutory changes to improve and expand the H1B system or replace it with something bigger and better.
Rohit / @krishnanrohit: “I'm not good enough to get hired but I will do the job at double the salary” is quite an offer [image]
Aravind Srinivas / @aravsrinivas: 🧐
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Yes to all of these except “more liked or respected abroad”, and that one is on you
Paul Graham / @paulg: As a rule the people who know the most about something are the pros whose incomes depend on doing it well. The pros at judging tech talent are venture capitalists. If venture capitalists' opinions differ from white nationalists', it's clear who's more likely to be right.
Sar Haribhakti / @sarthakgh: Those most outraged about companies allegedly hiring on H1 to save costs clearly have no idea how many hoops workers and companies have to jump through to get H1s It is exceptionally hard to compete with citizens who are much easier and cheaper to hire in competitive industries
Kia Richards / @kiarichards_: Observing the clash between MAGA loyalists and the Tech Right over immigration feels like the ultimate “I told you so” moment for Black Americans. We warned other POCs that the “America First” narrative was coded language for a white ethno-state, which doesn't include them.
Karma / @0xkarmatic: If Thiel would be looking at what Vivek and Elon are saying right now, he would tell them turn their phones off and not post for a while. Learn how to read the room.
David Sacks / @davidsacks: Number of illegal aliens/year: 3+ million. Number of employment visas/year: 140k. As a start, maybe we should focus on the 95% where we all agree.
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: Musk's claim that there are not enough “talented and motivated” engineers in America may be true, but the reason for it is decades of vicious hobbling of white men. For example, it is extremely difficult for white men to get into top engineering programs at a university. Most
Ian Miles Cheong / @stillgray: Are you trying to cancel 𝕏 employees now.
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: @DavidSacks @sriramk Average tech policy bro: “AI is going to put software engineers out of work within 5 years!” Also average tech policy bro: “We need to import tens of thousands more software engineers from India!” Which one is it, @DavidSacks? You should let us know what these Indian
Josh Wolfe / @wolfejosh: Truth. India is an important US ally and we should be doing more not less against shared threats especially those that wish us both harm.
Tae Kim / @firstadopter: Immigration is America's superpower. The U.S. has dominated global technology by attracting the world's best and brightest talent. Satya Nadella, Microsoft's CEO who guided the company's transition to cloud and created trillions in value, was born in India.
Andrew Torba / @basedtorba: This “tech labor shortage” is total nonsense. They think you're stupid. If you're a White male engineer in this country and you're unemployed right now you can't even get an interview because many of the hiring managers at top tech firms are Indian and only hire their own.
@parikpatelcfa: The CEO of Google is Indian The CEO of Microsoft is Indian The CEO of Adobe is Indian The CEO of IBM is Indian The CEO of Chanel is Indian The CEO of FedEx is Indian The CEO of Palo Alto Networks is Indian The CEO of Perplexity is Indian So yes. Indians are “high skilled
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Vivek really thinks he can win over these people by helpfully pointing out that a smart Indian is better than a dim white American. He truly is just grabbing a live wire with both hands while giving that big toothy grin. Like that Squid Games dude yelling “Not My Fault!!”
Joe Lonsdale / @jtlonsdale: My friend Sriram is America First. For USA to have the highest standard of living, generous govt services, and strongest military, we need to recruit the best and brightest and build the best companies. I'm against more low-end H1B immigrants; but let's win at the talent game.
Santi Ruiz / @rsanti97: Every advocate for high-skilled immigration I know has been flagging these issues with the H1B for years.
James Surowiecki / @jamessurowiecki: This is exactly like saying, “There are over 330 million Americans. Surely there must be enough great basketball players among them to build the best team. Why would you bring foreigners like Nikola Jokic and Luka Doncic and Giannis and Wemby here to play for American teams?” [image]
@parikpatelcfa: I came to America on an H-1B visa The process was a shitshow and I was very lucky to be picked in the lottery U.S immigration is broken, but the answer isn't making it harder for talented and hardworking people to come here
Micah Erfan / @micah_erfan: Team neonazi vs Team techbro [image]
Seva / @sevaut: watching the techno-reactionaries battle the ethno-reactionaries over immigration [image]
Charles Haywood / @theworthyhouse: America for the Americans. Everyone else, GTFO.
Josiah Lippincott / @jlippincott_: These are the two Twitter executives who banned my account for 2 and a half years without cause. So, yes, I have an axe to grind with “high skill” Indian migrants. [image]
Sheel Mohnot / @pitdesi: Midwit take: Indians can't found companies Reality: H-1B's tie immigrants to employers, making it hard to start companies. Indians rose to CEO roles bc they couldn't leave to build their own Country quotas mean decades-long green card waits for founders like @AravSrinivas 😢
@trueanonpod: Vivek intervenes in the MAGA civil war by saying the reason tech companies need to bring H1-B visa employees over is because Americans failed to venerate Steve Urkel
John Ganz / @lionel_trolling: The big contradiction on the right now is that immigrant voters are proving themselves to be pretty open to right-wing politics but the movement's racists are like “No this is about us white people”
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: I think it's 100 percent accurate to say that the idea of expanding legal immigration of skilled workers was rejected at the ballot box when Trump won. But it's still a good idea, and Trump frequently lies to and betrays his supporters, so he should do it on this.
@hodgetwins: Americans should be hired and trained before any foreigner Don't know how this is controversial 🤷🏾♂️
Sheel Mohnot / @pitdesi: GOP has been far more aligned than the dems. Helped win the election Skilled immigration is causing a fissure though. Many on the right do not want ANY immigrants in this country, esp Indians. 47 has picked well so I think we're good but the Groypers are out in full force
@tracewoodgrains: this sounds cocky but is entirely true most fields are talent-constrained in major ways that become apparent as soon as you focus on anything specific that requires competence take journalism. many more important stories to tell than top-tier writers to tell them
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Elon getting devoured by his pet tiger
@quantian1: VIVEK NO YOU'RE A REPUBLICAN NOW!!! YOU CAN'T SAY PEOPLE ARE UNSUCCESSFUL BECAUSE OF A DYSFUNCTIONAL CULTURE, LACK OF POSITIVE ROLE MODELS, AND AN ENTITLED VICTIM MENTALITY!!! NO VIVEK THEY'RE WHITE PEOPLE!!! YOU HAVE TO SAY IT'S STRUCTURAL FORCES AND NOT THEIR FAULT VIVEK!!! [image]
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: I don't think it's true that we built the bomb or went to the moon without foreign-born talent. [image]
@buccocapital: Tech bros forming a coalition with nativists and white supremacists to elect Trump [image]
@parikpatelcfa: What's the word for when someone takes the actions of two individuals who happen to share a common heritage and generalizes them to an entire race?
Balaji / @balajis: Consider two photos. The first is full of native-born Americans. These are the NYT Democrats who pushed for uncontrolled inflation, child castration, limitless taxation, illegal immigration, gun confiscation, and subway immolation. They also censored Republicans on social [image]
Sidharth / @cloudwatch199: LauraLoomer , your tweet is a masterclass in ignorance wrapped in xenophobia. Sriram Krishnan's (@sriramk )appointment is a reflection of expertise and leadership—qualities you seem incapable of recognizing. Silicon Valley wasn't built by clinging to outdated fantasies; it
Josiah Lippincott / @jlippincott_: “These third worlders with fake credentials are HARDER workers and SMARTER than you and your neighbors. You need to let them rule over you.” Nope!
@suhail: The open racism of Indians is a gift from the weak minded to us that we need to plan for the future. This is just the beginning.
Gavin Mario Wax / @gavinwax: I have a friend whose entire job used to be interviewing American job applicants to claim that they were unqualified so the company could hire a cheaper H1B1 applicant. They never intended to hire Americans. The entire thing is a sick fraud. “Good faith recruiting” my ass.
Rob Sherman / @rmsherman: .@sriramk was one of the first PMs I worked with after joining Facebook 12+ yrs ago. I don't know yet if I'll agree with all his views on AI, but he's highly qualified. We should all want someone with his expertise advising @realDonaldTrump & @DavidSacks on how the US can lead on
Matt Levine / @matt_levine_1: All rhetoric against H-1B visas is basically: “I'm losing in the labor market, but I want a participation trophy anyway” Workers compete vs. each other. If one works at a combination of [quality / speed / cost] superior to the other, the former wins. Train harder next time!
Joe Weisenthal / @thestalwart: Vivek Ramaswamy says the reason US companies hire foreign born talent is because of the degeneracy of American culture, which prizes jocks over nerds, and Stefan over Urkel in Saved By The Bell [image]
Mark Cuban / @mcuban: In an AI world, where free online sources of information have already been used as training data, and new sources are being siloed, as owned IP, don't we need more people with varied expertise, including Liberal Arts, to contribute to models, to correct hallucinations, and to
@eigenrobot: man. idk the number of posts ive seen like this is genuinely shocking to me and makes me more inclined to support obnoxious immigration restrictions tbqh something is going very badly wrong with integration if this is a common expressive response among indians
Ian Miles Cheong / @stillgray: There would be no 𝕏 if it wasn't for the skilled immigrants who helped make it what it is today under the direction of Elon Musk, a skilled immigrant. [image]
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: The fact is, America has only 4% of the world's population. You can't be the center of the global tech industry if your talent pool is only 4% of the population, no matter how talented that 4% is. We need to draw on the whole world for talent to stay at the center of things.
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: the idea that the only reason Silicon Valley is full of Indian and Chinese software engineers is the Civil Rights Act is genuinely so funny. you dumb fucks
Scott Belsky / @scottbelsky: another example of the spread of inaccuracy via algo polarization...sending extra special holiday vibes to my friend @sriramk who is battling plenty of misinfo and worse at the moment. but bigger pic: excited to see smart and dedicated minds in tech determined to fix things.
Rubirosa / @rubirosarevival: IT outsourcing firm Cognizant has received 52k H1B visas since 2009, more than any other American company. Almost all went to Indians. In October a federal jury ruled the company had intentionally discriminated against more than 2,000 non-Indian employees employed from 2013-22. [image]
David Sacks / @davidsacks: Actually, I completely trust @StephenM to handle immigration policy in the White House. What I oppose is a baseless witch hunt against a highly qualified American for a role as A.I. adviser.
@byyourlogic: this is one of the funniest posts I have ever seen in my life. I've never seen a guy misjudge things quite like this. he spent YEARS pretending to laugh at Babylon Bee headlines so he could post this!
@therabbithole84: From the article: “Sixty percent of the highest-valued tech companies were co-founded by first- or second-generation immigrants.” [image]
George Hotz / @realgeorgehotz: Most engineers are not in America, a simple fact about population size. Why discriminate based on country? Sounds very DEI. We discriminate based on skill and work ethic. If you prove yourself through our bounties, both @comma_ai and @__tinygrad__ would love to hire you.
Nas / @nasescobar316: @AllTheInternets It's what makes America weak. They have shut American Workers out of the workforce in favor of H1-B Indians. The only people who benefit are India, Greedy Tech Companies & Greedy Investors. American Citizens are the ones losing in this situation.
@josephpolitano: this is mostly a lot of text to say little of substance, but try to imagine the backlash if Harris had said in so many words “the reason we take in a ton of immigrants right now is because you jock worshippers don't have the culture for success” [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: these people just openly want to make America a vastly poorer country. just incredible
@plzbepatient: When Donald Trump was lying prone on a stage in Butler, PA, blood dripping down his face, he realized at that moment a true sense of purpose: uncapped immigration from India
Richard Hanania / @richardhanania: “If they're so smart, they can build their own country” I love when white proles who have done nothing in their miserable lives think that they're Edison or John Rockefeller. The CEOs of major tech companies have done a lot more to build the country than you, sorry to tell you. [image]
Mayank Seksaria / @mayankseksaria: [image]
Lucky / @themagahulk: My wife worked for a company that was purchased by a private equity firm that immediately brought in an Indian CEO. He pushed out all the founders and replaced all the C-suite with Indians. He used Covid as excuse to force every employee to take a “temporary” 10% pay cut and he
@cremieuxrecueil: People love to brag about their country doing better than America in mathematics competitions. But that doesn't matter. America ultimately receives a massively disproportionate number of IMO medalists. [image]
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @iamyesyouareno @MarioNawfal It comes down to this: do you want America to WIN or do you want America to LOSE. If you force the world's best talent to play for the other side, America will LOSE. End of story.
Jack Poso / @jackposobiec: J.D. Vance: New Congress Must Go After Corporations Replacing Americans with Foreign H-1B Visa Workers https://www.breitbart.com/...
Aaron Levie / @levie: This high skilled immigration debate is wild because you have a lot of people who don't build things commenting on the type of talent it takes to build things.
Mark Cuban / @mcuban: How do you feel about people who say “college is over rated ?” In order to have more homegrown engineers, don't we need more kids going to college ?
Daniel Vassallo / @dvassallo: Musk really gets it here. Education is important, but not sufficient. With the internet everyone has access to all the necessary education. What varies greatly between people is the motivation to learn and keep learning. [image]
Dr. Ben Braddock / @graduatedben: A modest proposal that will make everyone happy: Move Silicon Valley to India. Founders, VCs, employees, entire companies. Build a replica of San Francisco at Navi Mumbai. Silicon Valley gets cheap engineers, and we get rid of Silicon Valley. Win-Win
@eyeslasho: Let me express this another way: A reason that Indian-Americans may get more “hate” than East Asian-Americans is because they share more of the often-unpleasant personality features of European-ancestry Americans: They're more likely to be aggressive, individualistic,
Aaron Levie / @levie: High skilled immigration has been central to America leading the world in tech. The biggest misunderstand about high skill immigration stems from people thinking that the market opportunities in tech, and tech-adjacent fields, are zero sum. This essentially imagines innovation
Apoorva Govind / @appyg99: I've been on both sides of the H1B Visa.For context, I graduated with a Masters degree from Carnegie Mellon, interned at Nvidia, worked at Apple, then at Uber & eventually started my own company. Every year the US grants 85,000 H1Bs. For context, approx 2.1M ppl immigrate
@parikpatelcfa: As long as we hating on Indians let's cancel my college roommate Sheel Patel fuck that guy he still owes me $35
Malabar ChRishimas / @rishijoesanu: When will American right wingers learn that country caps on immigration is a DEI policy? America leaves Indian Physics Olympiad winners on the table in favor of Costa Rican farmers because of country caps
Bill Gurley / @bgurley: Big fan and supporter of @sriramk. Feel fortunate that he has volunteered to serve.
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: Heartbreaking to see American CEOs trying to make sensible arguments to persuade MAGA. Can they really be this naive?
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: H-1b workers are good for the economy. And on an unrelated note, all the rightists now bashing Indians on X and other platforms are full of crap. https://www.noahpinion.blog/ ...
Q. Anthony Ali / @nobleqali: I know this man has been waiting his WHOLE LIFE to give this speech I'm fuckin deceased this is Beat It Chick for the stinky lunches kids ☠️☠️☠️ [image]
Matthew Yglesias / @mattyglesias: We must reject both the prom queen and the math olympiad champ in favor of America's true heroes, the goths.
Laura Loomer / @lauraloomer: This X employee wants you to know that “America wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Indian excellence”. Bio says he is an engineer at @x. [image]
Armand Domalewski / @armanddoma: these people will go on about how we shouldn't import talent from abroad but invest in talent at home and then argue we should massively defund public education and abolish the Department of Education. They don't actually believe in anything, they're just bitter angry losers [image]
Andrew Ng / @andrewyng: One of the best things the U.S. can do is make high-skill immigration easier. @levie is right. It is awful that the wait time for a green card can be over a decade, and that after waiting years someone can still be forced to leave simply because they lost a job. Fixing this is
Paul Graham / @paulg: @levie The problem with the phrase “zero sum” is that the kind of people who mistakenly believe things are zero-sum tend not to know what it means...
Alec Stapp / @alecstapp: There is not a fixed number of tech jobs in the US. When we block skilled immigration, companies just hire more in foreign countries. Letting talented people move here is the ultimate win-win. [image]
Kache / @yacinemtb: I guess I can't be surprised that people don't know how difficult it is to find and hire a team of top .001 percentile operators, because they aren't top .001 percentile operators and could never be even if they tried
Ro Khanna / @rokhanna: Yes, I am proud of his support. I am for reforming the H1-B system. And I guess the test of your influence with the new President is whether @sriramk will have his role. My money is on him. Having people smart about tech and the future of AI is good for America.
@josephpolitano: a smarter man than David would perhaps realize a campaign stoking anti immigrant backlash against Mexicans, Haitians, Guatemalans, etc would inevitably lead to anti immigration backlash against Indian tech workers. Don't play with fire and then say it's a psyop when you get burnt
Matt Levine / @matt_levine_1: This clash between the MAGA-right and the Tech-right over skilled immigration is just an appetizer, btw The main course is going to be when the MAGA-right discovers that most of the Tech-right leadership are married homosexual men
Grant Slatton / @grantslatton: it's weird that there is this conspiracy that big tech companies use h-1b visa employees to avoid hiring americans we hired everyone we could find — americans, chinese, indians, russians, whatever most were just simply not good enough, including many americans
Noah Smith / @noahpinion: Sorry, rightists. Indian immigrants are making America great! https://www.noahpinion.blog/ ...
@presentwitness_: Now that H-1B has become a topic of discussion, here's my story: Born in Appalachia, went to a top-tier university, interned in wealth management and trading, recruited for all the top investment banks and research firms, only offer I received was to cold call South American
John Cardillo / @johncardillo: This is one of the most offensive things I've read. America and Americans are not mediocre. India is a filthy third world hellscape. If it's so exceptional, why doesn't its tech talent want to stay there?
@justalexoki: imagine trolling an entire website so hard people with millions of followers try to get you fired and your CEO replies “🔥🤣” [image]
Auron MacIntyre / @auronmacintyre: The h1-b visa doesn't exist to get you the once in a generation talent That's the o-1 visa and it will continue to exist The h1-b is exploited to replace the middle class
Cindy Sridharan / @copyconstruct: Many “anti-DEI” legal immigrants who celebrated Trump are now realizing that “America first” is fundamentally incompatible with their dreams of “global meritocracy”. And that Trump's core base is comprised of people who find their presence in America to be rather undesirable. [image]
Lorenzo / @tanknothink: what “American STEM students” lol
@kelewarg: It's not wild. It is the seed that was sown with the heavy anti-immigration rhetoric. The thing with any heavily negative emotionally-driven wave targeting the “other”, especially if you're not part of the in-group, is you get burned eventually.
Bojan Tunguz / @tunguz: LOL, yeah, the largely pro-immigration technocratic Silicon Valley libertarians and the nativist, isolationist, rural anti-tech right have very little in common aside from the loathing for the anti-free-speech woke Left. It will be interesting to see how long this alliance can
Rohit / @krishnanrohit: Look, let's use this example as a platform to talk about immigration. This because I'm quite sure eigen isn't a racist. So, first, immigration isn't just about economics. It's naturally fraught. People dislike culture drift, blame outsiders for their ills. Tale as old as time.
Forums:
| Brendan Bordelon / Politico: |
Tech lobbyists see new opportunities to expand access to high-skilled H-1B visas and green cards by leveraging the sway of Elon Musk over the GOP — A holiday blowup over immigration between Trump's tech advisers and the GOP base suggests the road may be littered with obstacles.
Bluesky: @antiquequaalude, @tomwellborn3, @ignotumaliquis, @pwnallthethings, @malwaretech.com, and @sharonk
Threads: @carnage4life and @carnage4life
X: @elonmusk and @davidsacks
More:
Bluesky:
Blake Brown / @antiquequaalude: In hist 1st term Trump had said he'd get rid of the H-1B visa abuse that companies utilize to pay lower wages to foreign workers and fire Americans. Never happened, of course.
@tomwellborn3: Despite Musk's influence, anti-immigrant forces and MAGA fearmongering threaten to block reforms, stalling progress yet again. www.politico.com/new... 2/2
Secretary Designate / @ignotumaliquis: 👇👇👇👇 THIS! — The GOP doesn't actually care about an invasion of brown & yellow people as long as they are H-1B tech workers coming in from India & China to take jobs away from American tech workers (at lower wage rates, of course). Hint: Neither do the Democrats. …
@pwnallthethings: Not the main thing here, but when real-life Einstein came to America, his visa was personally protested by organizations including the Women's Patriot Organization movement. If he were alive today, he'd as likely arrive under a refugee visa (or J-1) than under an O-1 [embedded post]
Marcus Hutchins / @malwaretech.com: All the Tech VCs backing Trump because they thought he'd deregulate tech, then losing access to H1-B & O-1 visas (which is how US tech companies poach all the skilled foreign workers and maintain absolute market dominance) would be a real funny case of “I didn't think the leopard would eat MY face”.
Sharon Kuruvilla / @sharonk: thiel capital has their talking points [image]
Threads:
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: Everyone who works in tech understands the reality of this charts below and that flat line has been flat regardless of who controls Congress or the White House for decades. The techies in the Trump admin have their work cut out for them to change this reality. I'll be happy if they can.
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: There are two topics where Democrats and Republicans are aligned; slowing down the pace of immigration (legal & illegal) and more money for police is always good. The tech bros entering the Trump administration are on a collision course with the GOP base if they attempt to increase legal immigration even if limited to “highly skilled workers.”
X:
Elon Musk / @elonmusk: @iamyesyouareno @MarioNawfal Your understanding of the situation is upside-down and backwards. OF COURSE my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans and we DO, as that is MUCH easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process. HOWEVER, there is a dire shortage of extremely
| Shubham Sharma / VentureBeat: |
DeepSeek releases DeepSeek-V3, an open-source MoE model of 671B total parameters, with 37B activated per token, claiming it outperforms top models like GPT-4o — Chinese AI startup DeepSeek, known for challenging leading AI vendors with its innovative open-source technologies, today released a new ultra-large model: DeepSeek-V3.
Bluesky: @digthatdata. X: @karpathy, @drjimfan, @eladgil, @dnystedt, @charlesrollet1, @lmsysorg, @richardsocher, @kimmonismus, @tunguz, @arankomatsuzaki, @amasad, @abhishekn, @emollick, @mathemagic1an, @deepseek_ai, @nrehiew_, @nrehiew_, @kimmonismus, @hosseeb, @xlr8harder, @goodside, @shravvmehtaa, @jacobrintamaki, @antimatter15, @test_tm7873, @jbohnslav, @saranormous, @menhguin, @balajis, @artificialguybr, @terryyuezhuo, @wordgrammer, @nearcyan, @reach_vb, @nikunj, @garybasin, @deedydas, @theblackauroras, @amasad, @deanwball, @amasad, @andrewcurran_, @gallabytes, @openrouterai, @rasbt, @simeon_cps, @tydsh, @teortaxestex, @scaling01, @casper_hansen_, @tom_doerr, @emostaque, @scaling01, @nrehiew_, @balajis, @yigitkonur, @jsevillamol, @vincentweisser, @reach_vb, @alexandr_wang, @itspaulai, @jiayq, @seunghyunseo7, @vin_sachi, @casper_hansen_, @alexocheema, @hsu_steve, @tom_doerr, @tim_dettmers, @scaling01, @dtrinh, @anjneymidha, @eturner303, @casper_hansen_, @teknium1, @tensor_fusion, and @lm_zheng
More:
Maria Deutscher / SiliconANGLE: DeepSeek open-sources new AI model with 671B parameters
Supreeth Koundinya / Analytics India Magazine: DeepSeek-V3 is Now The Best Open Source AI Model
Bluesky:
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Andrej Karpathy / @karpathy: DeepSeek (Chinese AI co) making it look easy today with an open weights release of a frontier-grade LLM trained on a joke of a budget (2048 GPUs for 2 months, $6M). For reference, this level of capability is supposed to require clusters of closer to 16K GPUs, the ones being brought up today are more around 100K GPUs. E.g. Llama 3 405B used 30.8M GPU-hours, while DeepSeek-V3 looks to be a stronger model at only 2.8M GPU-hours (~11X less compute)...
@drjimfan: Resource constraints are a beautiful thing. Survival instinct in a cut-throat AI competitive land is a prime drive for breakthroughs. I've been following DeepSeek for a long time. They had one of the best open coding models last year. Superior OSS models put huge pressure on
Elad Gil / @eladgil: Good evidence that a lot of efficiency being left on the table in US labs with massively scaled clusters
Dan Nystedt / @dnystedt: @tunguz Good question. CCP (Communist) propaganda always seeks to appear strong, no matter how weak. So are Deepseek's claims true? Is the AI robust? It could be all lies. But if not, that's bad news. https://x.com/...
Charles Rollet / @charlesrollet1: DeepSeek doesn't just pretend the Tiananmen Square massacre never happened. It also ‘firmly supports’ imprisoning prominent Uyghur dissidents for life. “Ilham Tohti is a person of significant notoriety in China... We firmly support the government's actions” [image]
@lmsysorg: The best open-source LLM, DeepSeek V3, has just been released! SGLang v0.4.1 is the officially recommended inference solution for it. The SGLang and DeepSeek teams worked together to support DeepSeek V3 FP8 on NVIDIA and AMD GPUs from day one. SGLang has supported MLA and DP
Richard Socher / @richardsocher: The race to lower LLM token prices continues with this impressive model trained on a much smaller budget. The higher the data quality, the lower the compute cost to train.
@kimmonismus: Price-eval-ratio is next level with DeepSeek v3 One should not underestimate the importance of a good price for the LLMs so that they are really available to everyone and so that the models are widely accepted. [image]
Bojan Tunguz / @tunguz: All the export bans on high end semiconductors might have actually been counterproductive in the “worst” way imaginable. They seem to have forced Chinese researchers to be far more ingenious and resource efficient than they might have otherwise been. It also seems to confirm my
Aran Komatsuzaki / @arankomatsuzaki: Deepseek-V3-Base was just opensourced! - 685B MoE w/ 256 experts topk=8 with sigmoid routing - Outperforms Sonnet 3.5 on Aider benchmark https://huggingface.co/... [image]
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Summary of how DeepSeek V3 was so efficient at training a frontier-level model according to Perplexity: — DeepSeek-V3 was able to train their large 671B parameter model with a relatively low compute budget of 2.788M H800 GPU hours through several key innovations and
Abhishek Nagaraj / @abhishekn: we cover this in our paper on competition in generative AI ( https://www.nber.org/...) our key prediction was that moats cannot rely on “secret sauce” but must instead be predicated on complementary assets (compute, network effects ...)
Ethan Mollick / @emollick: Unless things change dramatically, or there is some special sauce that is required & which the labs keep secret, frontier AI capabilities are likely to be available through open models (with the implication that no guardrails will hold in open models) all the way to possible AGI
Jay Hack / @mathemagic1an: DeepSeek v3 is an order of magnitude cheaper because it likely trained on frontier model outputs, in obvious violation of ToS ToS laundering by training on DeepSeek outputs is impossible to prevent. Does not bode well for economics of training frontier models
@deepseek_ai: 🚀 Introducing DeepSeek-V3! Biggest leap forward yet: ⚡ 60 tokens/second (3x faster than V2!) 💪 Enhanced capabilities 🛠 API compatibility intact 🌍 Fully open-source models & papers 🐋 1/n [image]
@nrehiew_: Arch wise they differ significantly from meta which just used a single massive dense transformer For oss Mixture of Experts, mixtral was the first (i think) and DeepSeek popularised it. Multi-Head Latent attention (MLA) comes from their Deepseek v2 paper which basically makes [image]
@nrehiew_: This is the image that has been going around so you probably know how nuts this is but some added context is that Llama 3 405B was trained on 16K H100 https://x.com/... [image]
@kimmonismus: DeepSeek-V3! 60 tokens/second (3x faster than V2!) API compatibility intact Fully open-source models & papers 671B MoE parameters 37B activated parameters Trained on 14.8T high-quality tokens Beats Llama 3.1 405b on almost every benchmark [image]
Haseeb / @hosseeb: Wow. Insanely good coding model, fully open source with only 37B active parameters. Beats Claude and GPT-4o on most benchmarks. China + open source is catching up... 2025 will be a crazy year.
@xlr8harder: While operating under substantial hardware limitations in China, DeepSeek continues to execute flawlessly and remain consistently generous, sharing their crown jewels with the world. Incredible.
Riley Goodside / @goodside: This is such a vibes-based eval, but the first prompt I give any new LLM is “Which version is this?” and DeepSeek-V3 nailed it See below for how Claude, Gemini, ChatGPT, and Grok fare on the same — TLDR: it's all over the map [image]
Shrav Mehta / @shravvmehtaa: Let's keep debating visas while China eats our lunch 🤡 China's leading LLM lab just dropped DeepSeek-V3. It's on par with GPT-4o and Sonnet 3.5 and cost < $10m to train.
Jacob Rintamaki / @jacobrintamaki: I think in many ways deepseek-v3 is a bigger update than o3 for “I didn't think that was possible yet.” There's so many great techniques they used as well; going to read their paper at least 4 times today. [image]
Jim Bohnslav / @jbohnslav: What would the deepseek team accomplish with a month or two on xAI's H100 cluster?
@saranormous: I don't think the US chip export controls are having their intended effect. Chinese model DeepSeek v3 very strong, and trained with OOM less money: “DeepSeek-V3 requires only 2.788M H800 GPU hours for its full training” (h800 is h100 with lower interchip bandwidth) [image]
Minh Nhat Nguyen / @menhguin: at some point unis should just have deepseek technical papers as readings for ML/CS. it's hard NOT to gain alpha from that, let alone something so up-to-date and relevant to the frontier.
Balaji / @balajis: In other words: the Chinese Deepseek paper references GPT-4o, which was in fact led by an Indian immigrant to the US. Many valid policy decisions one can make, but be real about the tradeoffs. 96% of the world is non-American and there is real talent out there. Original post:
@artificialguybr: How crazy is it to think that Deepseek is offering Deepseek V3 for 0.28/1M output and that this model is theoretically the second best non-reasoning model (second only to Gemini 1206) in the benchmarks. [image]
Terry Yue Zhuo / @terryyuezhuo: Big congrats to @deepseek_ai! The V3 Chat model now ranks 1st on BigCodeBench-Hard. Complete — 40.5% Instruct — 28.4% Average — 34.5% Gemini-Exp-1206 Average — 34.1% o1-2024-12-17 (reasoning=medium) Average — 32.8% More results can be found at https://huggingface.co/... [image]
@wordgrammer: DeepSeek's new model seems to have proven this For the majority of startups. You cannot build a better datacenter than Microsoft. You cannot fundraise more than Sam or Elon. You cannot get more data than Google. But you actually can write 10x better code than any of them
@reach_vb: LiveBench reported by r/LocalLlama - DeepSeek v3 is the BEST open weight LLM AND SECOND BEST non-reasoning LLM after ‘gemini-exp-1206’ 🔥 [image]
Nikunj Kothari / @nikunj: Feels like a Christmas miracle.. @deepseek_ai v3 - frontier OS model from China without throwing a LOT of compute at the problem “2.664M H800 GPU hours, we complete the pre-training of DeepSeek-V3 on 14.8T tokens, producing the currently strongest open-source base model.” [image]
Deedy / @deedydas: The ex-quants in China dropped the best open-source LLM in the world: DeepSeek V3! — 671B params, 37B active MoE — On par with 3.5 Sonnet and 4o — $0.27/Mtok input, $1.1/Mtok output — 60tok/s — 128k context — Trained with just $5.5M on 14.8T tok! 53-page technical paper is GOLD [image]
@theblackauroras: It's not outperforming just open source models. It's o1 level and outperforms Claude.
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Craziest thing is it took only $5.5m to train. US labs spend one — maybe two — order of magnitude more for frontier models.
Dean W. Ball / @deanwball: The Chinese AGI lab DeepSeek is reporting an insanely low training cost of only $5.5 million for their new v3 model, which seems to match Claude 3.5 sonnet performance. DeepSeek also has a credible “o1-like” model. Again I will emphasize: if your policy solutions are [image]
Amjad Masad / @amasad: Biden's Chips Act constrained the performance of chips exported to China, so the Chinese innovated a way to train large models for cheap. Regulators never consider second order effects.
@gallabytes: whale bros have the mandate of heaven, truly. xAI should just run the DeepSeek code on their cluster on the biggest dataset they can cobble together and release the best omni-model the world has ever seen. don't bother post-training it, just make the best base model and release
@openrouterai: Deepseek has tripled in usage on OpenRouter since the v3 launch yesterday. Try it yourself, w/o subscription, including web search: [video]
Sebastian Raschka / @rasbt: An updated back-of-the-envelope calculation of LLM pretraining costs based on the just-released DeepSeek-v3 report. And that doesn't even account for hyperparameter tuning, failed runs, or personnel costs. It really makes me appreciate the value of openly shared model weights! [image]
Siméon / @simeon_cps: It's noteworthy that DeepSeek is the first competitive lab which is not created by former GoogleBrain/GDMs or OpenAI (and derivatives) staff.
Yuandong Tian / @tydsh: FP8 pre-training, MoE, strong performance with very limited budget, Distill from CoT for bootstrapping ... wow, this is great work 👏👏 👍👍
@teortaxestex: > $5.5M for Sonnet tier it's unsurprising that they're proud of it, but it sure feels like they're rubbing it in. «$100M runs, huh? 30.84M H100-hours on 405B, yeah? Half-witted Western hacks, your silicon is wasted on you, your thoughts wouldn't reduce loss of your own models» [image]
@scaling01: the real story here is that Grok-3 will use 100x the compute and just barely beat DeepSeek-V3 LMAO
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: I'm DeepSeek-pilled now. Boggles my mind that Huggingface has not provided support for any DeepSeek version yet! [image]
Tom Dörr / @tom_doerr: It's creepy how well Deepseek V3 understands what's going on without me having to explain anything. It suddenly feels like there's a ghost in the machine [image]
Emad / @emostaque: To run DeepSeek v3 24/7 at 60 tokens per second (5x human reading speed) is $2 a day Latte ☕️ or AI 🤖 anon?
@scaling01: Some notes on the DeepSeek-V3 Technical Report :) The most insane thing to me: The whole training only cost $5.576 million or ~55 days on a 2048xH800 cluster. This is TINY compared to the Llama, GPT or Claude training runs. - 671B MoE with 37B activate params - DeepSeek MoE [image]
@nrehiew_: How to train a 670B parameter model. Let's talk about the DeepSeek v3 report + some comparisons with what Meta did with Llama 405B [image]
Balaji / @balajis: China's Deepseek claims their new open source model was trained for just $5.6M, and that it's on par with GPT 4o and Claude 3.5 Sonnet. If true that's a >10X cost reduction.
@yigitkonur: Bored during the holidays? For AI enthusiasts, it's the perfect time to catch up on the latest buzz 🤖 China's answer to OpenAI, Deepseek, just released their new v3 model, beating GPT-4o in most benchmarks It's now live on @ThinkbuddyAI for all curious minds 👇
Jaime Sevilla / @jsevillamol: DeepSeek-V3 is impressively efficient. It has 37B active params and was pre-trained on 14.8T tokens, amounting to 6 x 37B x 14.8T = 3e24 FLOP. That's 10x less compute than llama 3.1 430B, yet better benchmark performance. [image]
Vincent Weisser / @vincentweisser: Deepseek completely mogging the closed ai labs. Creating a state of the art model for $5.6m.
@reach_vb: The license allows commercial usage *without* an revenue caps, only asks one to respect the Use Policy! This makes DeepSeek V3 even more liberal than Llama 3x series 🔥 [image]
Alexandr Wang / @alexandr_wang: It is quite fitting that DeepSeek, China's leading LLM lab, releases its latest model V3 on Christmas. - on-par with GPT-4o & Claude 3.5 Sonnet - trained w/10x less compute The bitter lesson of Chinese tech: they work while America rests, and catch up cheaper, faster & stronger [image]
Paul Couvert / @itspaulai: Wait, so we now have a 100% open source model that's better than GPT-4o?! DeepSeek v3 is even superior to Claude Sonnet 3.5 for code according to multiple benchmarks. Already available for free to everyone 🧵 [image]
Yangqing Jia / @jiayq: In 2019 I had a chat with the DeepSeek team, in the hope of selling them an AI cloud solution. I was trying to convince them a few things: - you don't need complicated cloud virtualization, you just need containers and an efficient scheduler. - you will need really fast,
Seunghyun Seo / @seunghyunseo7: A quick summary of deepseek-v3 model (there may be wrong or missing details as this is based on a quick skim) tons of respect to their engineering team... [image]
Vin Sachidananda / @vin_sachi: Interesting point on training costs/compute efficiency: Deepseek trained on $5.5M w sparse (MoE) architecture - only 38B active params Cheaper than llama 3.1 (dense) w better performance From Jeff Dean's NeurIPS talk, Gemini taking similar approach Maybe end of dense models
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: Deepseek just mogged all of us with one release. Where is Llama 4? Will it even be competitive?
Alex Cheema / @alexocheema: I will run Deepseek-V3-Base 685B on M4 Mac Minis or die trying. 685B MoE with 256 experts — perfect for Apple Silicon since they have a lot of GPU memory and only a small subset of params are active at once. Outperforms SOTA closed-source models on benchmarks including Aider. [image]
Steve Hsu / @hsu_steve: DeepSeek V3 is out. Big improvements. This model is fast, inexpensive to run, and seems to beat Claude, 4o etc. on a broad set of benchmarks. Perhaps most importantly V3 is still open source! Keep in mind DS is a hedge fund whose founder (educated in AI at Zhejiang University)
Tom Dörr / @tom_doerr: Deepseek V3 is amazing. It changed exactly what I wanted, thought it would take a lot more prompting to explain why I want to generate the answer first. Didn't even need to explain that it needs to be a separate signature [image]
Tim Dettmers / @tim_dettmers: Reading the report, this is such clean engineering under resource constraints. The DeepSeek team directly engineered solutions to known problems under hardware constraints. All of this looks so elegant — no fancy “academic” solutions, just pure, solid engineering. Respect 👏
@scaling01: META could have trained DeepSeek-V3 at least 15 times using the compute budget of the Llama 3 model family ( 39.3 million H100 hours ) Meanwhile DeepSeek only spent 2.6 million H800 hours (a handicapped / worse H100) for a much better model [image]
Danny Trinh / @dtrinh: We're debating global skilled labor with a racist mob of locally unskilled laborers — meanwhile China put out Deepseek V3 with chewing gum and some paper clips. The US must win the global talent war and policies that get in the way only help our competition.
Anjney Midha / @anjneymidha: Deepseek v3 seems to be a genuinely good model. China has caught up. Open source has caught up. The frontier costs abt $6M. I expect the model to crush it on @OpenRouterAI over the next few days. Lots of priors should be updated.
Elliot Turner / @eturner303: DeepSeek V3 was post-trained on synthetic CoT data generated by their R1 reasoning model. Here's some interesting tidbits on their data pipeline from the DSV3 paper [image]
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: Feels like Mistral could have dropped a model just as good as DeepSeek V3 but chose to develop products for revenue instead of focusing on research
| Malcolm Moore / Financial Times: |
Italian energy giant Eni launches its HPC6 supercomputer, the most powerful outside the US, costing €100M to build and using 14K AMD GPUs, to find oil and gas — Italian energy giant switches on the world's most powerful machine outside the US — Italian energy giant Eni is firing … More:
Indrabati Lahiri / Euronews: Eni launches supercomputer in bid to discover new oil and gas fields
Mastodon:
Ian Brown / @1br0wn@eupolicy.social: Humanity will burn every last drop of fossil fuels rather than save the climate 🫠 'Italian energy giant #Eni is firing up the world's most powerful #supercomputer outside the US this Christmas as it races rivals to build the technology infrastructure needed to better explore for new sources of oil and gas.' …
| Richard Milne / Financial Times: |
Finland says it suspects an oil tanker in Russia's shadow fleet of damaging three undersea internet cables on December 25, the latest Baltic Sea cable damaged — Helsinki opens investigation into damaged power line in latest suspected sabotage attack on Baltic Sea infrastructure
Bluesky: @tslwhidbey, @benevoluspf, and @phillyfilly
X: @elinavaltonen, @tsahkna, @theresaafallon, @kristenmichalpm, @craigkennedy77, @mercoglianos, @kristenmichalpm, @elisabethbraw, @braze_baiba, @hennavirkkunen, @eu_eeas, @jayinkyiv, @gitanasnauseda, @kristenmichalpm, @gerashchenko_en, @p_kallioniemi, @andrisspruds, @kprikk, @kajakallas, @navylookout, @kristenmichalpm, @ambdanfried, @estoniangovt, @tallbarfin, @secgennato, @olganyc1211, @teroterotero, @davegreenidge57, @bayraktar_1love, @auonsson, @igorsushko, @bopanc, @terischultz, @thorstenbenner, @kjkresten, @gicariana, @vonderleyen, @visegrad24, @edgarsrinkevics, @teroterotero, and @terischultz
More:
EEAS: Joint Statement by the European Commission and the High Representative on the Investigation into Damaged Electricity and Data Cables in the Baltic Sea
Ketrin Jochecová / Politico: Finland probes Russian shadow fleet involvement in new Baltic cable break
Malek Fouda / Associated Press: Undersea power cable linking Finland and Estonia suffers damage in latest Baltic Sea incident
Streiff / RedState: Finland Boards Russian ‘Shadow Fleet’ Tanker in Connection With Damage of Undersea Electric Cables
Sebastian Moss / DatacenterDynamics: Finnish authorities board ship suspected of cutting subsea Internet and power cables
Jowi Morales / Tom's Hardware: Finnish authorities board tanker suspected of damaging undersea cables — tanker is reportedly linked to Russia's shadow fleet
Välisministeerium: Foreign Minister Tsahkna: It is difficult to see dragging anchors on the seabed as accidents
James Jackson / Telegraph: Finland investigates latest ‘sabotage’ of Baltic Sea cables
Sky News: Undersea power cable suffers outage as Baltic Sea countries on edge over series of disruptions
Bluesky:
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Elina Valtonen / @elinavaltonen: Spoke with Margus Tsahkna about the #Estlink2 & wider Baltic Sea undersea infrastructure damages. Our authorities are investigating the incidents. At this point, we can't rule out deliberate action. There have been too many disruptive incidents below the #BalticSea recently.
Margus Tsahkna / @tsahkna: Spoke with @elinavaltonen about #Estlink2 & wider Baltic Sea infrastructure damages. Estonia & Finland are in close cooperation on this matter. Cant rule out deliberate damage to the cable. There have been too many incidents at #BalticSea that coincidences are becoming unlikely.
Theresa Fallon / @theresaafallon: 👀Finland/Estonian undersea cable has been cut on Christmas. The Estlink Two is 1 of 2 cables connecting the Baltic power grid to Finland.🇨🇳ship Xin Xin Tiang crossed the cable at noon local time. This is the third time that a Chinese ship is suspected of involvement in cable cut [image]
Kristen Michal / @kristenmichalpm: Thank you, @PetteriOrpo, for the call and our excellent cooperation in recent days. Glad that we managed to act decisively and stop the suspected vessel for further investigation. We need to step up our bilateral, NB8, EU and NATO cooperation to keep our critical cables secure.
Craig Kennedy / @craigkennedy77: More bad judgement by Moscow, as it offers yet another reason to crack down on the shadow fleet. The Kremlin is losing the plot. https://www.ft.com/... via @ft
@mercoglianos: The Cook-Island crude oil tanker #EagleS has been boarded by Finnish authorities due to its suspected involvement in cutting cables between Finland and Estonia. The ship is part of the Dark Fleet hauling Russian oil outside the normal transportation network. Over the last [video]
Kristen Michal / @kristenmichalpm: Despite holidays, many people in Estonia and Finland have been working for the last two days to identify the problem for the Estlink-2 disconnection. My government will hold an extraordinary meeting this afternoon. We are in close contact with our Nordic-Baltic colleagues.
Elisabeth Braw / @elisabethbraw: “We have reacted quickly and decisively”, Prime Minister Petteri Orpo of Finland says regarding the suspected cable sabotage by the Eagle S. Well done Finland. The shadow fleet is a scourge, and a double scourge if/when its vessels harm undersea cables. https://yle.fi/...
Baiba Braže / @braze_baiba: Statement by the EU🇪🇺 on Damaged Cables in the Baltic Sea: We commend the Finnish authorities for their swift action in boarding the suspected vessel [..] The vessel is part of Russia's shadow fleet. We will propose further measures to target this fleet. https://www.eeas.europa.eu/...
Henna Virkkunen / @hennavirkkunen: I welcome the determined action by the Finnish authorities in relation to the cable incidents in the Baltic Sea yesterday. Depending on the results of the investigations, the EU is ready to act. The new sanctions framework provides effective tools to address hybrid threats.
@eu_eeas: Joint Statement by the European Commission and the High Representative @kajakallas on the Investigation into Damaged Electricity and Data Cables in the Baltic Sea. Read more: https://europa.eu/!k6cCfB [video]
@jayinkyiv: The Finns immediately seized the offending Russian tanker by air. This should happen to every member of Russia's shadow fleet.
@gitanasnauseda: Damaged critical undersea infrastructure power cables linking Finland and Estonia show us the increasing frequency of cable disruptions in the Baltic Sea. It no longer seems like a coincidence. Protecting maritime infrastructure must be raised both at the #NATO level and
Kristen Michal / @kristenmichalpm: Highly appreciate your firm support, @vonderleyen, @kajakallas. Consistent attacks against the underwater infrastructure between the EU members needs a joint and decisive response. Warmly welcome the efforts of the @EU_Commission to strengthen the measures against such acts.
Anton Gerashchenko / @gerashchenko_en: Analysis of the situation with EstLink2 cable and predictions about NordBalt cable by Belarusian political analyst Ihar Tyshkevich: The underwater electricity cable Estlink 2 connecting the Finnish and Estonian power grids has been damaged. It is one of two cables that have a [image]
Pekka Kallioniemi / @p_kallioniemi: So far, three cables between Finland and Estonia appear to have been sabotaged, likely with involvement from Russia and China. Yet, there have been zero consequences for the perpetrators. How much longer will we tolerate this? Analysis by @auonsson [image]
Andris Spruds / @andrisspruds: Damaged undersea cables between Finland and Estonia are a worrying sign that must be taken seriously. We stand firmly with our Finnish, Estonian, and other NATO allies in safeguarding our critical maritime infrastructure. The Latvian National Armed Forces have intensified
Kristjan Prikk / @kprikk: ESTLINK2 undersea power cable between Estonia and Finland cut + several undersea data cables cut/damaged in the Baltic Sea. 🇫🇮 has detained the oil tanker belonging to russian shadow fleet suspected of aggravated vandalism by anchor drag. Estonian 🇪🇪 government is meeting and is
Kaja Kallas / @kajakallas: The incident involving undersea cables in the Baltic Sea is the latest in a series of suspected attacks on critical infrastructure. We commend the Finnish authorities for their swift action in boarding the suspected vessel. My joint statement → https://europa.eu/!k6cCfB (1/3)
@navylookout: Another undersea cable broken in the Baltic Sea. EstLink line which supplies electrical power from Finland to 🇪🇪Estonia ruptured on Christmas Day. 🇭🇰Hong Kong-flagged container ship MV Xin Xin Tian 2 sailed from 🇷🇺St Petersburg on 24th and was near the cable at the time of the [image]
Kristen Michal / @kristenmichalpm: Thank you for your timely phone call, @SecGenNATO. Grateful for your continued support. With systematic attacks against our critical infrastructure, NATO's unity, close cooperation and decisive response remains vital.
Daniel Fried / @ambdanfried: Another apparent act of Russian sabotage against European infrastructure. Not the acts of a government seeking peace.
@estoniangovt: The Estonian Government gathered for an extraordinary session this afternoon to discuss the outage of Estlink 2. A press conference with @KristenMichalPM will be held at 6 p.m., to provide an overview of the situation and further steps. Follow it here ⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/...
Tomi / @tallbarfin: More information about the operation of the Finnish authorities on Christmas Day: Shortly after the cable failure was discovered, Finnish police high readiness unit landed on the Eagle S ship by air and took over the bridge. Crew didn't have time to react this time.
Mark Rutte / @secgennato: Spoke with @KristenMichalPM about reported possible sabotage of Baltic Sea cables. #NATO stands in solidarity with Allies and condemns any attacks on critical infrastructure. We are following investigations by #Estonia & #Finland, and we stand ready to provide further support.
Olga Lautman / @olganyc1211: Finnish grid company Fingrid has reported another cable break in the Baltic Sea. The power supply via the Estlink 2 cable, which connects Finland and Estonia, was cut off. This is the 4th incident in the region in a month https://theins.ru/...
@davegreenidge57: Before this it was a cable between Sweden and Lithuanian. Before that was between Finland and Germany. At what point does this become an Article 5 issue? [image]
@bayraktar_1love: The Finnish National Bureau of Investigation announced at a press conference that the damage to the EstLink 2 submarine cable was likely caused by the anchor of the Russian shadow fleet's oil tanker Eagle S, according to preliminary assessments. The anchor was not found when the [image]
@auonsson: Oil tanker EAGLE S is a good candidate for damaging electrical cable Estlink 2. XIN XIN TIAN 2 a poor one. Details on the other site. [image]
Igor Sushko / @igorsushko: With constant Russian sabotage of undersea cables in the Gulf of Finland, it's time to blockade the passage.
Bojan Pancevski / @bopanc: 🚨 New Baltic sabotage alert: Finland detained a tanker carrying Russian oil on the suspicion that it had severed undersea power and data cables on Christmas Day @WSJ https://www.wsj.com/...
Teri Schultz / @terischultz: Have no doubt how seriously Finland is taking this incident: Here's the assembly of law-enforcement authorities holding a press conference on a national holiday. 1/ [image]
Thorsten Benner / @thorstenbenner: All this (including often neglected issue of investing in repair capabilities) makes sense. But more is needed to impose costs on those behind these acts. Otherwise no increase of deterrence against grey zone attacks. [image]
@kjkresten: Eagle S executed a very unisual maneuver for a ship in transit exactly when Estlink 2 went down, and exactly on top of Estlink 2. [image]
@gicariana: Russia is waging war against the free world, and we aren't defending ourselves. We aren't helping Ukraine defeat Russia militarily and politically to prevent brazen, naked acts of military aggression against us. We help Ukraine today or battle Russian tanks on our soil tomorrow.
Ursula von der Leyen / @vonderleyen: Yesterday's Baltic Sea incident highlights threats to EU infrastructure. We commend Finland's swift action and stand with Finland, Estonia and Germany. Together we will increase our common protection of European critical infrastructure including undersea cables.
@visegrad24: BREAKING: The undersea power cable Estlink 2 between Finland and Estonia has been destroyed. The Chinese vessel Xin Xin Tiang was sailing over it when it happened Xin Xin Tiang is a sister vessel of NewNew Polar which destroyed the undersea gas pipeline Balticconnector in 2023 [image]
Edgars Rinkēvičs / @edgarsrinkevics: Damaged undersea cables between Finland and Estonia most probably is not a coincidence to put it nicely. Latvia stands in solidarity with our Finnish and Estonian allies. Protecting critical maritime infrastructure must be one of key NATO's and regional tasks in the Baltic Sea.
Tero Kuittinen / @teroterotero: EU must shut down the Russian shadow fleet now - no entry to Baltic Sea.
Teri Schultz / @terischultz: After ANOTHER cable is damaged in the Baltic Sea, Finnish President @alexstubb makes clear where suspicions lie even before the investigation is complete. “We must be able to prevent the risks posed by ships in Russia's shadow fleet,” he says after a briefing on the incident.
| Tom Dotan / Wall Street Journal: |
Microsoft adds Copilot to Microsoft 365 in Australia and Southeast Asia and raises 365's price, a sign of how it aims to turn a profit from its AI investments — The tech company has made Copilot part of its 365 subscription service in several markets and raised pricesBluesky:
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| Manuel Baigorri / Bloomberg: |
Alibaba agrees to merge its South Korean operations with E-Mart's Gmarket, creating a 50-50 joint venture; sources say the new company could be valued at ~$4B — - Companies announce JV deal in Korea, confirming earlier report — Alibaba seeks inroads abroad as growth slows in ChinaMore:
LinkedIn:
| Ivan Mehta / TechCrunch: |
Bluesky launches Trending Topics in beta on its desktop and mobile apps in English; a user's muted words and phrases won't appear in their trending topics — Social network Bluesky said on Christmas that it is testing a trending topics view. The trending topics are visible both on the desktop … More:
Filipe Espósito / 9to5Mac: Bluesky launches beta version of Trending Topics feature
Steve Dent / Engadget: Bluesky launches a Trending Topics feature in search
Barbara Krasnoff / The Verge: Bluesky adds Trending topics to its arsenal
Christian Zibreg / How-To Geek: Bluesky Just Got Another Much-Needed Social Feature
Ramat Adetunji / Neowin: Bluesky launches ‘Trending Topics’ feature in beta
Johanna Romero / PhoneArena: Bluesky gives its users the gift of a new Trending Topics feature
Bluesky:
@bsky.app: Merry Christmas from us to you 🎄🎁💙 We launched Trending Topics today, and you can find it by tapping the search icon on the bottom bar of the app or the right sidebar on desktop. [image]
@bsky.app: Details about Trending: — 🎅 This is v1 and we will be iterating with your feedback — 🧑🎄 You can disable it with the X button or in Settings — 🎄 Your mute words transfer to Trending! — 🎁 English only for now, while we test it [image]
John / @johnbull.social: Amazing, a new feature is rolled out and everyone gets it... AND people have the option to turn it off?! amazing concept. [embedded post]
@moviessilently: I'm not mad about this, if I am honest. I did miss the trending topics on Twitter because it gives you an idea of the happenings without them obnoxiously hijacking your feed [image]
Paul Frazee / @pfrazee.com: Some more info about the Trending beta — If you disable it, you can restore it in your settings — We do moderate it — If it somehow goes haywire we'll press a big red button to turn it off
Gillian Branstetter / @gbbranstetter: People are complaining about Bluesky adding trending topics but right now “prime rib” is trending and when you click on it it's just a parade of succulent and perfectly cooked prime ribs
Paul Frazee / @pfrazee.com: Hey everybody! You may notice Trending start to appear in your app! Here's some quick info: - This is a beta - Search page on mobile, right sidebar on desktop - You can disable it with the X button on the trending section - English only for now, while we test it Merry Christmas!
Samuel / @samuel.bsky.team: trending topics is out for 15 minutes and I'm already trying to figure out how to game it to get Wallace and Gromit trending
Mike Masnick / @mmasnick: Trending topics are here... trending topics are here. Truly a Christmas miracle. [embedded post]
| New York Times: |
Japan Airlines temporarily halted ticket sales and delayed more than 40 flights on Thursday after a cyberattack, and says there was no impact on flight safety — The airline also temporarily stopped selling tickets for flights departing Thursday, but said that there was no impact on flight safety.More:
Mari Yamaguchi / Associated Press: Airline hit by a cyberattack, delaying flights during the year-end holiday season
Daryna Antoniuk / The Record: Japan Airlines resumes operations after cyberattack delays flights
Maria Deutscher / SiliconANGLE: Japan Airlines delays, cancels some flights following cyberattack
Tolga Karadeniz / AirlineGeeks.com: Cyberattack Disrupts Japan Airlines Flights
Melvin Backman / Quartz: Japan Airlines hit by major cyberattack, leading to massive delays
Pierluigi Paganini / Security Affairs: A cyber attack hit Japan Airlines delaying ticket sales for flights
Kosaku Narioka / Wall Street Journal: Some Japan Airlines Flights Delayed After Cyberattack
Kanako Takahara / The Japan Times: Japan Airlines reports cyberattack on system, impacting portion of flights
Alice French / Bloomberg: Japan Airlines Experiencing Issues Due to Cyberattack
Bluesky:
LoveKat / @lovekat41: This story may have been missed by many. As well as the plane wreck in Russia, this cyber attack took place on a Japanese airliner after giving Ukraine military funds for the war. — apnews.com/article/japa... Airline hit by a cyberattack, delaying flights during the year-end holiday season
| Ruth Reader / Politico: |
US federal lobbying disclosure forms reveal how Meta, with a team of 14 directly employed lobbyists, led efforts to block the passage of KOSA in Congress — The billionaire and his company needed Speaker Mike Johnson's help to stop legislation that would have regulated social media for the first time.
Bluesky: @antiquequaalude, @chinasorrows, @rweingarten, @variousinterests, @axidentaliberal, @accountabletech, @fightforthefuture.org, and @rweingarten. Threads: @karaswisher
Forums: Blind and r/centrist
More:
Bluesky:
Blake Brown / @antiquequaalude: Get money out of politics now. They control our government, not us, and always will unless we outlaw this dogshit.
Randi Weingarten / @rweingarten: META had more than a dozen lobbyists working to kill the Kids Online Safety Act. They're backing lawsuits against states that pass online safety bills. We need the next Congress to act because these companies will not take meaningful action on their own! www.politico.com/news/2024/12...
Adam Cohen / @axidentaliberal: The Kids Online Safety Act passed in the Senate with a 91-3 vote — But Mike Johnson made sure the bill didn't come up for a vote in the House — So Mark Zuckerberg will make more money-by exploiting children — REPUBLICANS AREN'T ON OUR SIDE — They're working for billionaires …
@accountabletech: Follow the money: — Meta announces plans to build a massive data center in Louisiana ➡️ Speaker Johnson excludes the Kids Online Safety Act #KOSA from the year-end funding bill. — What's it going to take for Congress to stand up to Big Tech and protect young people?
@fightforthefuture.org: 🚫 We'll continue taking a stand against the Kids Online Safety Act in 2025 by making this harmful legislation unpopular and unpassable. The Trump administration may censor critical information so we'll focus on expanding our anti-censorship coalition. [image]
Randi Weingarten / @rweingarten: Mark Zuckerberg's META poured millions of dollars into stopping the Kids Online Safety Act. A win for one of the wealthiest people in the world is a huge loss for kids and communities suffering from the mental and physical harms tied to social platforms. www.politico.com/newsletters/ ...
Threads:
Kara Swisher / @karaswisher: Mike Johson, appeaser https://www.politico.com/...
X:
@polskysays: There's many reasons why, in previous testimony before House committees, I've said that laws need to be written without in/direct influence of #BigTech and lobbyists In the case of KOSA, which is now dead, there's apparently 19 million reasons https://www.politico.com/...
Sen. Marsha Blackburn / @marshablackburn: The Kids Online Safety Act reached many milestones this Congress, passing the U.S. Senate with 91 votes in favor. Our work is not done yet. KOSA must be signed into law. @SenBlumenthal and I will continue fighting to protect our children & finally hold Big Tech accountable.
@memphisholler: “specific concerns within the bill include its potential to impinge on First Amendment free speech rights and a “duty of care” provision that defines what social media companies can be held accountable if young users are harmed through their content.” https://tennesseelookout.com/ ...
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Upcoming Tech Events
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Bluesky:
| New York Times: |
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Forums:
| Eric Enge / Search Engine Land: |
Bluesky:
Dare Obasanjo / @carnage4life: This analysis compares ChatGPT and Google across 62 queries, across informational, commercial, local, and navigational topics. ChatGPT performs well for general information but falls short on local and commercial queries, where Google with ads wins. — Answer engines are set to redefine web search.
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Barry Schwartz / @rustybrick: Eric @stonetemple nice work hitting Techmeme!
Earlier Picks
| Richard Deitsch / New York Times: |
Bluesky: @yeeleo15, @heridesbikes.com, @drwutt, @richarddeitsch, @amandamull, @kevinmkruse, and @lilbuts. Threads: @misterjt319
More:
Sara Fischer / Axios: Source: the NFL expects both games will have averaged around 30M viewers each once international figures and additional US data is calculated
Oliver Darcy / Status: How news outlets should cover a second Trump presidency
Ben Axelrod / Awful Announcing: Opinion: Netflix established itself as the future of live sports with Christmas NFL doubleheader
Dennis Romboy / Deseret News: Netflix had a successful NFL debut. What's next?
M.G. Siegler / Spyglass: Opinion: the greatest trick Netflix ever pulled was convincing the world they weren't interested in live sports, but the NFL games show it's Netflix's future
Michael Dixon / Awful Announcing: Delving into Netflix's claim that ‘over 200 countries’ watched Chiefs vs. Steelers on Christmas
Elizabeth Flores / USA Today: Beyoncé takes playful dig at Netflix ahead of Christmas halftime performance
Jeremy Goldstein / Daily Express: Netflix hit with NFL issues as £120m coverage disrupted on Christmas Day
Jake Nisse / Associated Press: Netflix's first NFL Christmas broadcast hits snag with early issues before Chiefs-Steelers
Doha Madani / NBC News: Beyoncé performs ‘Cowboy Carter’ hits during Christmas NFL halftime show on Netflix
Josh Silverstein / ClutchPoints: Netflix's premiere NFL broadcast has more unforced errors than Steelers, Chiefs combined
Erik Gruenwedel / Media Play News: Netflix First-Ever NFL Christmas Day Opener Struggles With Technical Issues
Jared Schwartz / New York Post: Netflix avoids repeat of Jake Paul-Mike Tyson streaming disaster after early NFL hiccups
Sean Keeley / Awful Announcing: Netflix's NFL broadcast praised for pristine picture quality, lack of glitches
Marina Watts / People: Beyoncé Winks at Past Netflix Live Glitches in New Christmas Halftime Show Clip
Sabba Rahbar / E! Online: Beyoncé Trolls Netflix Over Streaming Concerns Ahead of Christmas Performance
Amanda Richards / Netflix Tudum: The NFL Christmas Gameday Hosts Are Ready for An Epic Holiday
Bluesky:
Leo S / @yeeleo15: Streaming to 10-15 million a lot different than the 60 million they claimed from the Tyson fight.
@heridesbikes.com: The audio track was really bad for me. I had to have the volume at more than twice what I typically have it at and kept noticing a lag between words and moving lips. — I suspect they might have been compressing the audio track to prevent video buffering.
@drwutt: Seriously? The Beyonce show was a pixelated mess and these are NOT the reports I'm getting from others.
Richard Deitsch / @richarddeitsch: Via @theathletic.bsky.social: — Some thoughts on how the Chiefs-Steelers game went on Netflix: — www.nytimes.com/athletic/601...
Amanda Mull / @amandamull: Credit to Netflix, these broadcasts today don't at all feel like the first NFL games they've ever had. Amazon Prime meanwhile manages to make every broadcast feel like they're trying their hand at something new and seeing how it goes
Kevin M. Kruse / @kevinmkruse: Thrilled to have these major NFL games on Netflix so I can experience regular ads *and* frequent crashes of the app
Ashtyn Butuso / @lilbuts: Mina Kimes deserves better than this Netflix production
Threads:
X:
@tvgrimreaper: Two of the current legacy NFL rights holders (CBS, Fox) will be so impoverished as to be irrelevant by the next rights cycle. The other two (Disney, Comcast) will be uncompetitive (big) if Amazon, Google, Apple, Netflix, or other tech money wants their rights.
John Gruber / @gruber: @mgsiegler Pregame show was a mess, but the game broadcasts have been great. Better camera and sound than Amazon, and Amazon has had TNF for years now.
Doug Terfehr / @dougterfehr: Another benefit of NFL on Netflix vs network is many fans don't want to exit from one app and open their other to watch NBA. Harder to surf and flip around.
Clay Travis / @claytravis: They've also managed to add commercials to pay per view with almost zero complaints. The entire reason commercials existed was to pay for the “free” broadcast. Pay per view sports used to be commercial free for that reason. Now they double dip.
Clay Travis / @claytravis: Netflix did a good job with both games today. But within a decade every major sporting event will be on streaming and you'll need a subscription to watch. The days of watching sports for free on broadcast networks are dwindling in a hurry.
Joe Pompliano / @joepompliano: Curious if people are flipping back and forth between the NFL and NBA games? That's what I did last year but it's much more annoying this year with the NFL games on Netflix and it could result in an even lower viewership number for the NBA.
@w_b_rick: Putting the games on Netflix so people can't even flip back and forth with the NBA is such a killshot from Goodell
Marcus Whitman / @tfg_football: Kay Adams, RG3, Manti Teo, and Mina Kimes for the Netflix halftime show is a huge W.
@fballanalysisyt: The Netflix pre and post game crew of Kay Adams, RG3, Manti Te'o, and Mina Kimes has been absolutely electric
@melechthomas: Netflix, if ya'll don't mix this sound properly?!? The audio quality of the National Anthem sounds like a church live streaming their services on Zoom
Matt Coatney / @coatman1: So far Netflix not impressing me on their #NFL coverage after that terrible audio of the national anthem. #NFLonNetflix
@terrymeiners: @awfulannouncing A 💯 improvement over the Tyson/Paul fiasco. The NFL production is A+
@warclandestine: This Netflix panel is a dumpster fire. I miss the panels before the Dems defiled sports media, trying to push their woke agenda. The Left destroys everything it touches. [image]
@buccigross: This picture quality for this Chiefs-Steelers game on Netflix is super crispy. Very nice.
Matt Miller / @nfldraftscout: One quarter in and I'm really impressed with the picture and sound quality from Netflix. Noticeably cleaner than a lot of network games I watch.
| Politico: |
Bluesky:
Paul Demko / @pdemko: “The four laws' spending and tax breaks for Biden's priorities totaled at least $1.6 trillion, exceeding the inflation-adjusted cost of FDR's assault on the Great Depression.” www.politico.com/news/2024/12...
Alexander Howard / @digiphile: “Congress provided $1.1 trillion for Biden's big climate, clean energy and infrastructure programs. More than half of that spending — at least $561 billion — has yet to be obligated or is not yet available for agencies to spend.” www.politico.com/news/2024/12... [images]
X:
| Qwen: |
More:
Sajjad Ansari / MarkTechPost: A Comprehensive Analytical Framework for Mathematical Reasoning in Multimodal Large Language Models
Kyt Dotson / SiliconANGLE: Alibaba announces advanced experimental visual reasoning QVQ-72B AI model
Markus Kasanmascheff / WinBuzzer: Alibaba Qwen Releases QVQ-72B-Preview Multimodal Reasoning AI Model
Jonathan Kemper / The Decoder: Qwen's open-source QVQ rivals OpenAI and Google's best models in visual reasoning
Simon Willison / Simon Willison's Weblog: Trying out QvQ - Qwen's new visual reasoning model
X:
@alibaba_qwen: 🎄Happy holidays and we wish you enjoy this year. Before moving to 2025, Qwen has the last gift for you, which is QVQ! 🎉 This may be the first open-weight model for visual reasoning. It is called QVQ, where V stands for vision. It just reads an image and an instruction, starts thinking, reflects while it should, keeps reasoning, and finally it generates its prediction with confidence!...
Balaji / @balajis: Among decentralized models: Llama is best generalist Qwen is best multimodal/multilingual Mistral has lightest footprint But the space moves so fast that may change tomorrow.
Adina Yakup / @adinayakup: QvQ-72B-Preview🎄 an open weight model for visual reasoning just released by @Alibaba_Qwen 🎉 https://huggingface.co/... ✨ Combines visual understanding & language reasoning. ✨ Scores 70.3 on MMMU ✨ Outperforms Qwen2-VL-72B-Instruct in complex problem-solving [image]
Adi / @adonis_singh: qwen is literally the only good (overall) open source model that you can run without selling a kidney on hardware
@cocktailpeanut: Finally got Qwen QVQ-72B to work on my Macbook M1 Max 64G. Used @LMStudio, and used the MLX version. The 8bit version didn't fit in memory, so I downloaded the 3bit one. And the 3bit one works just fine! [image]
Simon Willison / @simonw: A note on the license: when the QvQ repo went live yesterday the LICENSE file listed Apache 2, but last night it was updated to the custom Qwen license instead https://simonwillison.net/...
@_akhaliq: Qwen QVQ is now available in anychat This may be the first open-weight model for visual reasoning. It is called QVQ, where V stands for vision. It just reads an image and an instruction, starts thinking, reflects while it should, keeps reasoning, and finally it generates its [image]
Casper Hansen / @casper_hansen_: I hate to be that guy, but you can't retroactively update the license. There will now forever be an Apache 2.0 licensed version of QvQ that you can git checkout [image]
Junyang Lin / @justinlin610: 72B is too large.
@cocktailpeanut: Qwen QVQ 72B. Wow this is on another level. I gave it a photo of an NY subway train, and asked “Should I get off if i'm headed to Chinatown?” Watch as I scroll through the response. So many thoughts going on simultaneously, and in the end, decides to correctly get off the train. [video]
Binyuan Hui / @huybery: 👀 We've explored inference-time scaling for visual multimodal tasks and introduced QVQ, the first open multimodal o1-like model, which can be seen as the visual counterpart to QwQ. Much like QwQ, QVQ demonstrates intriguing thought processes and has achieved promising results on [image]
Simon Willison / @simonw: Here are my notes on trying out the brand new QvQ “visual reasoning model” released today (Apache 2 license) by Alibaba's Qwen team https://simonwillison.net/...
Junyang Lin / @justinlin610: 🎄 Happy holidays! This is something fun for you to play with. QVQ, the new model, can think and reason on images!
Vittorio / @iterintellectus: babe, wake up qwen gave us a visual reasoning and open weight model for christmas [image]
Junyang Lin / @justinlin610: Limitations include biases on English prompts so I advise you to test with prompts in English. Also, due to some concerns, we did bot extend the reasoning capabilities to all domains and sometimes you will meet the model's rejection to answer your questions or its providing very
Simon Willison / @simonw: I thought we were done for big new model releases in 2024, but evidently not! Here's a new Apache 2 licensed vision LLM from Qwen to round out the year